Shadowman and Discovery Automotive...

Yeah..

word on the street...

When you are in a "real" car enthusiast world... people talk over coffee, and over the phone, and many emails.

And my car world stretches pretty far.

 

I've gotten a ton of phone calls about this whole thing. And this forum is the direct link to all the forums this story is posted on.

Im involved with plenty of car clubs and street racers... and they all point the finger here.

 

So if im getting banned for posting that opinion... than so be it.

 

I guess i could chalk it up to the backbone of this message board.

 

 

Bravo on your "real" car world stretches... I mean that is impressive, I cant remember the last time I talked to people about cars over coffee, the phone, email or shit even in person

 

Direct link to this forum could be that the owner of the Ford GT asked Alex to post this here... hmmm interesting I know. It was posted here first there for all other forums are feeding off of what comes from this site.

 

No need to get defensive we are just talking here

 

Like I said before enjoy your stay here

 

Post some pics of your camaro and any other toys you may have

 

 

 

 

What do you care what we do? Not to start shit but what reason do you have to give a fcuk about Shadowfag, the price of tea in China, or whatever comes out of Allan's mouth?

 

Shadowman took him for a $170k ride, he doesn't want to feel used.

Have you ever done business there... or are you hopping on the new trend?

 

I tried to years ago and had a bad experience trying to get him to do work on my car so I took my business else where.

Trust me... i would... but everywhere i go this forums bullshit ass posts are.

Quit spamming the fcuking message boards with your "anti Shadowman" propaganda.

 

The preceding was a paid advertisement from Shadowfag Industries. And now back to our regularly scheduled programming.................

 

 

These dudes are dissing a good dude. fcuk that. I back Shadowman.... and it aint right for these dudes to try and destroy

his shop.

Trust me... i would... but everywhere i go this forums bullshit ass posts are.

Quit spamming the fcuking message boards with your "anti Shadowman" propaganda.

 

Your the one that decided to join this forum 4 days ago in support of Shadow____ fill in the blank

These dudes are dissing a good dude. fcuk that. I back Shadowman.... and it aint right for these dudes to try and destroy

his shop.

 

He destroyed his own shop.

He destroyed his own shop.

 

No more "gals".

Holy overcharging!

 

"6 - Speaking of paying for things, Bill originally gave me a quote of $6000-$7000 for finishing what Osh started. In the end, it cost me $38,000 even though I supplied Bill with the Supercharger, the heat exchanger, the carbon fiber tubes, the headers, the Brembro brakes -- basically all the parts (...) speaking of the invoice -- I only had to ask Bill about 50 times for that and it took him until about 7 months after I got the car back to get it to me. And you should see it -- it's a Word Doc that looks totally unprofessional and nothing is broken down. "

 

 

These dudes are dissing a good dude. fcuk that. I back Shadowman.... and it aint right for these dudes to try and destroy

his shop.

 

I think you have no idea why there are so many people "jumping on the bandwagon" as you mention. You have been here a few days, where most people here know Ray Hoffman, have met him and hung ou with him, or know him from the forum. Ray has plenty of money, but when you get fucked, people should know about it. Instead of coming on here acting like a jackass, you should have posted your good experiences you had with him, or posted factual data you have that discredits statements made in this thread.

 

Ray has done lots of business with many tuners. If the story as written in this thread are true, Shadowman deserves all the negativity that comes from it.

He destroyed his own shop.

 

You can't call someones garage a shop.

 

Its just like saying the taco truck is a restaurant.

You can't call someones garage a shop.

 

Its just like saying the taco truck is a restaurant.

 

Quite correct.

These dudes are dissing a good dude. fcuk that. I back Shadowman.... and it aint right for these dudes to try and destroy

his shop.

Is what happened to Ray's car right?

Is what happened to Ray's car right?

 

Ray got paid.

So that makes it all good then?

Ray got paid.

 

Not confirmed

For starters, I don't think it matters what condition his shop is in. Be it a garage or a fancy one, quality work is quality work. Would you just trust Heffner to work on your Gallardo in a regular garage? Would you trust SP to work on a GTR? Having a big, nice shop makes things easier and neater and nicer to look at, but a mechanic can do all the same stuff as long as he has the right tools and knows what he's doing.

 

I'm not vouching for Shadowman's work and I have no clue if it's good or bad. However, that's not why this thread exists. It exists because of how he handled the situation. He totaled someones car, misled them about the damage and what happened, will not take responsibility for it, would not make Peak whole on the additional loss, and even tried to claim injury stuff on Peak's insurance IIRC. I mean, did he even try to work something out at all? Peak seems like a good guy and I'm sure Peak would be willing to work something out in terms of repayment or something. All I got from reading what happened was that the dude just wouldn't do shit and tried to get out of it.

 

That's why this thread exists. That's why his shop will get ruined by this. It has nothing to do with the quality of his work, it has to do with the quality of his character. If he would have just took responsibility for what happened and try to make some good of it, the damage to his reputation and business would be far less.

 

He totaled someone's car while working on it. Regardless of anything else, that alone is going to damage his business reputation. The fact that he acted like he did was the coup de grâce.

 

As for the comments about a competing shop adding fuel to the fire, I didn't think SP was even known for FGT stuff to be honest. When I think FGT, they aren't even the second name I think of.

 

Maybe something has changed since then and now, but as it stands right now, this is how I see it.

You know what Brian, that is probably one of the first posts of yours lately that is actually well balanced and well reasoned.

 

And you made no mention of buying shit from China, well done.

What trips me out is knowing that this thread and title was initiated by the owner of this forum witch is connected to SP Engineering, and allowed it to become a slanderous based mission to "destroy" Shadowman. It is obvious to many of us looking in that Lambopower and SP Engineering could be subject to legal actions as a result of the activity allowed on this forum by the owner Alex and SP Engineering.

 

Anyway... just thought i would let you all know what it looks like. There is a buzz in the streets about how lame the whole situation is regarding the forums.

 

You just let us know how that works out for Shadowman and Discovery Automotive.

LOL, the man and his shop cannot afford garage keepers insurance let alone pay for the car he just destroyed and all of a sudden he is going to hire an attorney for to go after LPower for slander.

Shadowmans work is top notch, period. He's had a hand in working on Rays cars in the past and if this accident didn't happen he'd no doubt be working on them in the future.

 

He's tuned many nice cars over the years and every FGT owner knows if you want your car modded or fixed he's the guy.

 

Now you can start up with jokes again......but those are the facts.

 

I will continue to take my cars there......the rest of you (a majority here I imagine) that dont own anything beyond a Scion, 3 series BMW or relic exotic car should shut the fcuk up Go weigh in on local mechanics that work on those P.O.S.'s

 

And the others.....you're all on record for sticking up for your wealthy pal Ray....good for you. Your ass kissing is duly noted. Maybe he'll sign your t-shirt at the next mile event. Move on already

Ray got paid with 0 thanks to Bill and was only compensated, if at all (recent revelations from others show that nothing has been resolved) only under the most extreme of duress. That is the crux of the problem here, and that is what you have failed to notice. He is being put under a microscope, at least on this forum (note, on other forums the members are now coming out that they got fucked either financially/through poor quality work/both), due to his ineptness at handling how he totaled Ray/Peak's car. He operates a business tuning/driving expensive exotic automobiles with 0 insurance. How can you do that???

 

When you total someones car, how can you give a story like Bill did? How can you tell the client that you cannot/will not pay for his damages??? How can you then pursue his insurance for payment for your ambulance ride or medical bills? And before someone says that the hospital likely went after Ray's insurance first, that would be ONLY BECAUSE BILL FAILED TO PRODUCE HIS OWN MEDICAL INSURANCE CARD WHEN CHECKING HIMSELF INTO THE HOSPITAL!!! That, by itself, to me, disproves and inkling of Bill being stand up and doing the right thing. When he went to the hospital and filled out the paperwork, or when he was filling out paperwork with the ambulance company, the only insurance card he whipped out was the one that Ray provided when he wrecked the car. Sounds like that was the only thing he was waving around when started the whole mess and he essentially wiped his ass with it and Ray's friendship/trust.

 

I don't know Bill. I have read what Ray has posted. If I am going to side with someone it is going to be Ray due to him being an upstanding forum member that contributes to this community on a daily basis and being someone with integrity due to the admission of others that know him that he has integrity. If I were in the market to modify a car, or have one cared for, on have one tuned I would certainly want to know about this thread or one like it regarding a business/tuner that I was planning on sending my car to. I am willing to admit that there are people that he has not laid the wood to... That does not mean that it is inescapable and also inexplicable what has happened here. He should have done the right thing from jump street, he is now tainted and in my mind rightly so.

 

 

 

Ray got paid.

Chris,

 

I appreciate your post.....but it boils down to just a few topics.

 

Car Insurance - Ray provided written approval along with the doc's for the car to be driven. He said himself that "bells went off"...he should have said something THEN AND THERE. He needs to take some responsibility for those chain of events. (reminds me of some Democrats I know )

 

Medical Insurance - He attempted to pay this but the protocol wouldn't allow it. It needs to get denied by Ray's insurance co. and then he can get involved. How do you know what insurance card was handed over? Maybe it was his own but they have forwarded it to Rays? Sounds like a typical insurance co. move to me

Chris,

 

I appreciate your post.....but it boils down to just a few topics.

 

Car Insurance - Ray provided written approval along with the doc's for the car to be driven. He said himself that "bells went off"...he should have said something THEN AND THERE. He needs to take some responsibility for those chain of events. (reminds me of some Democrats I know )

 

Medical Insurance - He attempted to pay this but the protocol wouldn't allow it. It needs to get denied by Ray's insurance co. and then he can get involved. How do you know what insurance card was handed over? Maybe it was his own but they have forwarded it to Rays? Sounds like a typical insurance co. move to me

 

I strongly prefer the posts that stick with the facts as I'd not want to tarnish someone's reputation unfairly. How do you ever get that back, right? There are some important facts. First, ray said that Bill asked for an insurance card. This means that Bill is letting Ray know that the insurance will be with the car not with Bill. I've never ever had a service department ask me for an insurance card. That's when I'd be asking questions and if I know the risks and there is an accident, then I only have myself to blame.

 

Second point: The bigger issue for some here isn't that the accident happened. I know of several FGTs that have been in accidents with good drivers behind the wheel. So nothing is a red flag there, but what bothers many here is HOW Ray was notified and how the process unfolded according to Ray. Again, in Ray's own words, he's far from a happy customer.

 

Compounding the situation is that there are many who have voiced their dissatisfaction with Bill's work yet we don't know what's fact and what isn't. From what I understand, his kind of shop is not an exact science either as plenty can go wrong with modifications, which is why I'm personally reluctant to have any done on my cars. I've met Bill, but I've never had him work on my cars. I do know of satisfied customers personally, but what has people building a case against Bill isn't any one thing, it's what appears to be a trail. I've chatted with Bill and unfortunately he can't post here to defend himself and I don't think that's right either as I do think he should be allowed to have his day in forum court given that he is being judged here.

 

I'm all for the forums posting their good and bad experiences with shops. That's a huge reason I come to forums- to learn. I dislike the personal attacks on Bill, even if I disagree or can't relate to him in some ways.

 

As for character, everyone has great character when things are easy. It's when things are really difficult that you see who someone really is. Watch Manfred Fitzgerald in the Super Trofeo accident and him getting right into the fire to pull that guy out, burning his own forehead in the process. That's when you see who someone really is.

 

Last, we don't know the final chapter yet as it sounds like there is no settlement yet. I'm content to wait this one out and see how Bill and Ray resolve things and if Ray goes back for additional work. That's when I'll make up my own mind about the situation. Until then, I want to stay out of the public roasting.

I've chatted with Bill and unfortunately he can't post here to defend himself and I don't think that's right either as I do think he should be allowed to have his day in forum court given that he is being judged here.

 

I'm all for the forums posting their good and bad experiences with shops. That's a huge reason I come to forums- to learn. I dislike the personal attacks on Bill, even if I disagree or can't relate to him in some ways.

 

 

as i said 3 days ago:

 

 

it's REAL simple: .. i say remove the BAN on Shadowman and let's hear his side of the story..

 

 

..

OMG...TWO credible posts in a row!!! Somebody better shut this tread down.