Saw the Pagani Huayara

I would venture to say Bugatti and RollsRoyce wouldn't agree with that statement. Delays due to change orders maybe, but otherwise it's doubtful.

 

Different circumstances, in my opinion. RR and Bugatti have the financial and research support of BMW and VAG, respectively. Before BMW, RR was more exclusive and produced less cars, and Bugatti probably wouldn't be in business today without VAG.

 

Koenigsegg and Pagani are independent. Koenigsegg has had delays with complying with US EPA and CARB regulations. Pagani has had plans to enter the US market since 2007, but they still haven't had much success meeting NHTSA standards because it's costly.

According to me. Ive seen 3 in person and not impressed.

 

Ive never been excited by the koenigsegg... that beig said though, its still impressive given that they were like the lamborghini before Chrysler and audi took over lamborghini. A small independent outfit cranking out boutique cars. And of course, with boutique cars, nothing will be absolutely nor could anyone expect bugatti like quality simply because the funds are simply not there. Imagine putting VW as koenigsegg's sugar daddy and I'll bet that the car will have all the support possible. Im sure everyone has seen the pagani door not closing issue on youtube... thats boutique and thats what you buy into when you consider pagani or even koenigsegg...

Ive never been excited by the koenigsegg... that beig said though, its still impressive given that they were like the lamborghini before Chrysler and audi took over lamborghini. A small independent outfit cranking out boutique cars. And of course, with boutique cars, nothing will be absolutely nor could anyone expect bugatti like quality simply because the funds are simply not there. Imagine putting VW as koenigsegg's sugar daddy and I'll bet that the car will have all the support possible. Im sure everyone has seen the pagani door not closing issue on youtube... thats boutique and thats what you buy into when you consider pagani or even koenigsegg...

 

Exactly.

agree to disagree. Try driving a ct, diablo , and then a mac back to back... you'd yawn at how well the modern day cars dish out ridiculous speed with little fanfare. Perhaps that is progress, but also something lost in modern exotics. Ive bolt up on a mac at 160mph and feel impressed but not as fulfilling as taking a ct at 60mph. The steering, the gear shift, everything all ties in to a blend of sounds and syncronization between man and machine... The new cars... they do pretty much everything for you... press , pull and mission accomplished...

 

We aren't disagreeing on the Mac, I am with you all the way hence he reason why I prefer the rawness and old school feel of the 570 SL

 

There are some new cars, granted not many, which still evoke that all school feel you are talking about.

We aren't disagreeing on the Mac, I am with you all the way hence he reason why I prefer the rawness and old school feel of the 570 SL

 

There are some new cars, granted not many, which still evoke that all school feel you are talking about.

 

Tried that too and still feels more pull and push than visceral...but that may be just me...lol. You can ask Allan if he thinks so on the gallardo platform even with the TT system he had before....

Tried that too and still feels more pull and push than visceral...but that may be just me...lol. You can ask Allan if he thinks so on the gallardo platform even with the TT system he had before....

As of now, im drawing the old school line at the Gallardo and Murci, both 6 spd.

As of now, im drawing the old school line at the Gallardo and Murci, both 6 spd.

Makes sense to me. One was the last with space frame and both were the last with a full manual.

 

That said, a car doesn't need glaring "idiosyncrasies" to have character, IMO. However everyone has different standards. I know some old farts who turn their noses up at anything with air conditioning.

Tried that too and still feels more pull and push than visceral...but that may be just me...lol. You can ask Allan if he thinks so on the gallardo platform even with the TT system he had before....

 

You must be very old school and I definitely get that

 

 

I want the "drama" but without the PITA

As of now, im drawing the old school line at the Gallardo and Murci, both 6 spd.

That's I think where I would draw the line too... And those cars are right on the line... Tiptoe back and forth on the line close...lol

You must be very old school and I definitely get that

 

 

I want the "drama" but without the PITA

 

Lol. Actually, I appreciate all cars...but I just feel getting in an exotic car should be exactly that...exotic. It isn't just about how fast the car is but how it delivers it... I wouldn't say it would necessarily be pita to get that feeling... I drive the diablo with great comfort, no drama, with functioning cold ac... It's just hard to put into words though how it differs from the new cars... Drama isn't delivered in just speed but through everything about the car..

Makes sense to me. One was the last with space frame and both were the last with a full manual.

 

That said, a car doesn't need glaring "idiosyncrasies" to have character, IMO. However everyone has different standards. I know some old farts who turn their noses up at anything with air conditioning.

Lol ac on my car works fine... Plus I'm no where near old fart status;).

That's I think where I would draw the line too... And those cars are right on the line... Tiptoe back and forth on the line close...lol

 

 

As of now, those are the cars I anticipate wanting to add, along with dare I say.. a TR.. From my experience with the latest of cars, both my 458 and GTR ( especially GTR) leave me less than excited. The 458 was certainly not a bad car, and still a thrill to own and drive, but I guess ultimately it doesnt make me tingle deep down. Just looking at my Diablo/CT is as exciting to me as driving them. If I add a Murci, Im pretty sure it will be an early 02-03 6 spd, unless I can find an lp640 6 spd. I dont like the Egear in the Murcielago at all and would rather not own one if that were the only option. The Gallardo on the otherhand, Id consider in an egear if it were an Lp560 or above. Ultimately finding something like an STS 6spd would be the prefered choice ( if one even exists).

 

Out of the newer cars which are highly praised that I have experience with:

 

1. The GTR... I honestly thinks its one of the most over rated cars Ive ever owned. When I first bought it, I thought to myself how incredible it was, a car that does everything well. Now, I find that it even makes going fast.. boring. I think its a decent looking car, with mediocre build quality. If it weren't for the work SP did on it, I think I would of gotten rid of it already. Inmo, its the most boring and overrated car available. My Herbie was much more fun.

 

2. The Mp4... From all the times Ive driven it, even as far back as when I owned my 458 and went and drove the pre production prototype I always walked away underwhelmed. I know the newer ones are louder/faster etc, but it just doesnt excite me visually all that much. I kind of a consider it a GTR with cooler doors if that makes any sense.

 

3. The 458... Inmo, its still the best of the new ( not including the Aventador) The interior is gorgeous, it sounds great, the transmission is fantastic and inmo a much better looking car than the MP-4. It maybe slower, but if choosing between Mp4 and 458.. Give me a white 458 please.

 

Lastly, the Aventador. Certainly the best looking exotic out today, especially in Roadster form. I havent driven one yet, but from a looks/quality standpoint I think it is the best true exotic available. For bragging rights I do feel it should be faster, but I know for me and my useage it would be faster than I would ever need. ( my Diablo feels fast to me now) In the end, driving it may dissapoint me, but atleast visually it ignites a passion the others dont.

 

Hitting back on the Huayara, at its price point I expect the car to be jaw dropping and inmo its not. If I were to be soo lucky as to be shopping for a car of this price point my money would be in the ThethetheFerrari or a Veyron. On a side note, Ive seen 2 Zondas as well. A silver one back in NJ, and a yellow one here.. In pictures these cars always looked great to me, but when seeing them upclose, especially the yellow one here in L.A. they dont seem to be anywhere as good as people suggest. All that being said if push came to shove, and I did have a million bucks to spend on cars, Id buy an Aventador and spend the rest on older cars.

The automobile is, obviously, a machine. Car guys, also obviously, loves things mechanical --- note that we have a section here on L/P that is devoted to mechanical timepieces. Modern cars, IMO, are too refined to the point that they are alienating themselves from the driver. We don't "feel" what the machine is doing anymore and often (perhaps too often) the electronic nanny kicks in and robs us further from that man & machine synergy.

 

For the CT & Diablo, due to the limited engineering know-how at that time, drivers "felt" their cars whether they like it or not. Car guys would, of course, appreciate that. Keep in mind also that Lambos of that era were designed and engineered by true sports cars enthusiasts. Advance in technology, environmental and safety regulations mandate that modern cars are more "user friendly". Market competition and shareholders also demand increased sales; as evident by all the original "atelier-type" car manufacturers had either been bought up by automotive conglomerate or disappeared altogether. The only way to increase sales is to increase mass appeal and making the cars more "user friendly" is the most obvious and easiest solution. But in doing so, the connection between driver and his machine continues to decline.

 

Imagine in the future when full electric cars are the norm and electric cars will finally become "fun" to drive, aside from the instant high torque from the electric motor(s), we will all reminisce how cool combustion engines and their exhaust used to sound as compare to the a steady hum from the AC motor(s).

 

These type of comparison/argument will always exist: not unlike comparing a Leica M3 to a Sony Cybershot; a Patek Phillipe complication to a Casio G-Shock; or a Linn Sondek turntable to an iPod. Each will have its own right of existence and devotee with good reasons to support it while speaking against the other.

 

As to the Pagani, I still prefer the Zonda.

Hate to be all magazine racer here but EVo have a Veyron Vitesse v Huayra article.

It is their usual high quality review so worth a full read but...

Said accomplished car, probably quicker than a Veyron but the Vitesse grips a hell of a lot better and feels faster. Once the Huayra grips it goes. Certainly looking at the videos of Evo and Chris Harris it certainly looks interesting coming out of corners.

As of now, those are the cars I anticipate wanting to add, along with dare I say.. a TR.. From my experience with the latest of cars, both my 458 and GTR ( especially GTR) leave me less than excited. The 458 was certainly not a bad car, and still a thrill to own and drive, but I guess ultimately it doesnt make me tingle deep down. Just looking at my Diablo/CT is as exciting to me as driving them. If I add a Murci, Im pretty sure it will be an early 02-03 6 spd, unless I can find an lp640 6 spd. I dont like the Egear in the Murcielago at all and would rather not own one if that were the only option. The Gallardo on the otherhand, Id consider in an egear if it were an Lp560 or above. Ultimately finding something like an STS 6spd would be the prefered choice ( if one even exists).

 

Out of the newer cars which are highly praised that I have experience with:

 

1. The GTR... I honestly thinks its one of the most over rated cars Ive ever owned. When I first bought it, I thought to myself how incredible it was, a car that does everything well. Now, I find that it even makes going fast.. boring. I think its a decent looking car, with mediocre build quality. If it weren't for the work SP did on it, I think I would of gotten rid of it already. Inmo, its the most boring and overrated car available. My Herbie was much more fun.

 

2. The Mp4... From all the times Ive driven it, even as far back as when I owned my 458 and went and drove the pre production prototype I always walked away underwhelmed. I know the newer ones are louder/faster etc, but it just doesnt excite me visually all that much. I kind of a consider it a GTR with cooler doors if that makes any sense.

 

3. The 458... Inmo, its still the best of the new ( not including the Aventador) The interior is gorgeous, it sounds great, the transmission is fantastic and inmo a much better looking car than the MP-4. It maybe slower, but if choosing between Mp4 and 458.. Give me a white 458 please.

 

Lastly, the Aventador. Certainly the best looking exotic out today, especially in Roadster form. I havent driven one yet, but from a looks/quality standpoint I think it is the best true exotic available. For bragging rights I do feel it should be faster, but I know for me and my useage it would be faster than I would ever need. ( my Diablo feels fast to me now) In the end, driving it may dissapoint me, but atleast visually it ignites a passion the others dont.

 

Very well put, I agree 100% and I'm half your age

The automobile is, obviously, a machine. Car guys, also obviously, loves things mechanical --- note that we have a section here on L/P that is devoted to mechanical timepieces. Modern cars, IMO, are too refined to the point that they are alienating themselves from the driver. We don't "feel" what the machine is doing anymore and often (perhaps too often) the electronic nanny kicks in and robs us further from that man & machine synergy.

 

For the CT & Diablo, due to the limited engineering know-how at that time, drivers "felt" their cars whether they like it or not. Car guys would, of course, appreciate that. Keep in mind also that Lambos of that era were designed and engineered by true sports cars enthusiasts. Advance in technology, environmental and safety regulations mandate that modern cars are more "user friendly". Market competition and shareholders also demand increased sales; as evident by all the original "atelier-type" car manufacturers had either been bought up by automotive conglomerate or disappeared altogether. The only way to increase sales is to increase mass appeal and making the cars more "user friendly" is the most obvious and easiest solution. But in doing so, the connection between driver and his machine continues to decline.

 

Imagine in the future when full electric cars are the norm and electric cars will finally become "fun" to drive, aside from the instant high torque from the electric motor(s), we will all reminisce how cool combustion engines and their exhaust used to sound as compare to the a steady hum from the AC motor(s).

 

These type of comparison/argument will always exist: not unlike comparing a Leica M3 to a Sony Cybershot; a Patek Phillipe complication to a Casio G-Shock; or a Linn Sondek turntable to an iPod. Each will have its own right of existence and devotee with good reasons to support it while speaking against the other.

 

As to the Pagani, I still prefer the Zonda.

Yep agreed.

 

Let's just say, the Huayra is gonna need a lot more if it wants to compete with ThethetheFerrari, 918, and P1.

 

Let's just say, the Huayra is gonna need a lot more if it wants to compete with ThethetheFerrari, 918, and P1.

 

 

Let's just say, the Huayra is gonna need a lot more if it wants to compete with ThethetheFerrari, 918, and P1.

 

But the point is, the car isn't made to compete with the likes of those. The Pagani is in a league of its own. We only associate it with those because we want too, not because it needs too.

Any car that sells in that price range is competing with each other for orders. Through all of the styling, the engineering, the calibration, one thing is constant. The need for performance. Everything else is purely subjective. The Huayra is like the lame duck. It's not better looking, it's not better engineered, and it's competely outgunned.

Any car that sells in that price range is competing with each other for orders. Through all of the styling, the engineering, the calibration, one thing is constant. The need for performance. Everything else is purely subjective. The Huayra is like the lame duck. It's not better looking, it's not better engineered, and it's competely outgunned.

 

They're all faster than fast enough and in the end it boils down to which one moves you. Anyone that's spending 7 figures on a car like this probably already has a Veyron or some other nuclear weapon for speed.

From "Winkelmann's abortion" to:

 

 

the Aventador. Certainly the best looking exotic out today, especially in Roadster form. I havent driven one yet, but from a looks/quality standpoint I think it is the best true exotic available. For bragging rights I do feel it should be faster, but I know for me and my useage it would be faster than I would ever need. ( my Diablo feels fast to me now) In the end, driving it may dissapoint me, but atleast visually it ignites a passion the others dont.

 

Putting around it is definitely more sanitized than the older Lambos, but when you crack it wide open, it will definitely thrill. The ISR vs dual clutch has something to do with it, IMO.

They're all faster than fast enough and in the end it boils down to which one moves you. Anyone that's spending 7 figures on a car like this probably already has a Veyron or some other nuclear weapon for speed.

 

How so? I'd expect the Veyron to be a direct competitor. Aka someone would choose between a Veyron or the Huayra. Most would go for the Veyron because of the straightline performance figures.

How so? I'd expect the Veyron to be a direct competitor. Aka someone would choose between a Veyron or the Huayra. Most would go for the Veyron because of the straightline performance figures.

 

That is the most baseless argument ever. So you know that the majority of people looking at million dollar cars will go for the Veyron? And how is this? Many love the veyron tech but think its uglier then what some feel the Huayra is. You have absolutely no ability to say with any amount of certainty what someone in that market will choose. As more then likely they will have both. Or will go with whatever stirs their emotions more. Not just straight line speed. I dont see any Huayras sitting on dealer lots...(not that there are many pagani dealers.)

Any car that sells in that price range is competing with each other for orders. Through all of the styling, the engineering, the calibration, one thing is constant. The need for performance. Everything else is purely subjective. The Huayra is like the lame duck. It's not better looking, it's not better engineered, and it's competely outgunned.

I'm curious if you would be arguing this POV if the P1 wasn't on that list