9 year old girl accidentally kills shooting instructor

Sorry... But where I live now, there are thousands of kids, YOUNG kids, using all sorts of "dangerous" (capable of chopping you into a million pieces in a few seconds) farm equipment from the time they're old enough to walk... Chain saws? Angle grinders? Ha!!! There are kids who do that shit day in and day out... The neighbor kids have been driving pick up trucks, bob cats, and tractors for YEARS... And they're like twelve now? You think a gun is dangerous? See what happens when a tractor flips onto somebody.... See what a combine does to flesh... But,the kids learn how to do it... Safely, and they're fine. And nobody thinks twice about it...

Agreed. When it's a necessity families don't have any other option. On a farm people are motivated to procreate simply because it spreads the workload out and helps put food on the table and money in the bank.

 

I started my first full time job when I was twelve (40 hrs. a week, which was the max allowed by law with my work permit). I worked installing and servicing industrial fire, sound, security, and communications equipment each summer until I was 19. I was using a lathe, hole punches, drill presses, angle grinders, scissor lifts, boom lifts, anchor guns (the kind that use .22 and 9mm blanks to propel anchors into concrete), riveters, welders, plasma torches, angle grinders, etc. Most of the stuff I was already familiar with, but the other stuff was always with good supervision and instruction.

 

I started my job during the school year at twelve also. I worked at the local hardware store making keys, cutting glass to size, using pipe cutters and threaders for black iron, using band saws and chop saws to cut metal, wood, pvc, etc. to length. All with good initial instruction and somehow managed to work both jobs without any serious injury. I started using basic drills, circular saws, grinders, soldering irons etc. when I was about eight. I was cutting grass and using a weed whacker, snowblower, rake, etc. to earn money when I was right around eight also.

 

This was all out of necessity. My mom was raising three boys by herself. If I wanted to buy something, like a bicycle, I had to raise the money on my own.

 

Most of the chainsaw/tool/industrial accidents I have seen involve guys that are older who start a job using tools they are unfamiliar with or buy tools they have never used. They are overconfident due to their age, and digits are lost due to improper use and lack of training or instruction. Buying a chainsaw and then heading out back to take down a hundred footer without any experience what so ever is a recipe for disaster. The internet is filled with those videos. Sometimes a cautious malleable young mind is exactly what you need when you are learning how to use these types of dangerous tools, along with proper instruction of course.

 

That said, I can definitely see why one would want to keep kids away from most of what I mentioned. Some don't have that option. Same holds true for gun use. Hunting is a way of life and a way to keep mouths fed in most areas of this country.

 

Edit: Agreed on the bicycle point. I made about twenty trips to the ER when I was younger and they were all for stitches and X rays from bike and skateboard related injuries, a few from team sports. Only one trip from using power tools, and that was from a drill bit breaking while I was drilling out a snapped screw on the pedal of my bike.

Agreed. When it's a necessity families don't have any other option. On a farm people are motivated to procreate simply because it spreads the workload out and helps put food on the table and money in the bank.

 

I started my first full time job when I was twelve (40 hrs. a week, which was the max allowed by law with my work permit). I worked installing and servicing industrial fire, sound, security, and communications equipment each summer until I was 19. I was using a lathe, hole punches, drill presses, angle grinders, scissor lifts, boom lifts, anchor guns (the kind that use .22 and 9mm blanks to propel anchors into concrete), riveters, welders, plasma torches, angle grinders, etc. Most of the stuff I was already familiar with, but the other stuff was always with good supervision and instruction.

 

I started my job during the school year at twelve also. I worked at the local hardware store making keys, cutting glass to size, using pipe cutters and threaders for black iron, using band saws and chop saws to cut metal, wood, pvc, etc. to length. All with good initial instruction and somehow managed to work both jobs without any serious injury. I started using basic drills, circular saws, grinders, soldering irons etc. when I was about eight. I was cutting grass and using a weed whacker, snowblower, rake, etc. to earn money when I was right around eight also.

 

This was all out of necessity. My mom was raising three boys by herself. If I wanted to buy something, like a bicycle, I had to raise the money on my own.

 

Most of the chainsaw/tool/industrial accidents I have seen involve guys that are older who start a job using tools they are unfamiliar with or buy tools they have never used. They are overconfident due to their age, and digits are lost due to improper use and lack of training or instruction. Buying a chainsaw and then heading out back to take down a hundred footer without any experience what so ever is a recipe for disaster. The internet is filled with those videos. Sometimes a cautious malleable young mind is exactly what you need when you are learning how to use these types of dangerous tools, along with proper instruction of course.

 

That said, I can definitely see why one would want to keep kids away from most of what I mentioned. Some don't have that option. Same holds true for gun use. Hunting is a way of life and a way to keep mouths fed in most areas of this country.

 

 

Lol. Concrete nail/anchor guns scare the living shit out of me... The one I had you loaded with a .22 blank, and you had to hit the end with a dead blow hammer... No fcuking thanks...

Lol. Concrete nail/anchor guns scare the living shit out of me... The one I had you loaded with a .22 blank, and you had to hit the end with a dead blow hammer... No fcuking thanks...

Scariest fcuking thing I have used is a 55 ton press/punch/sheer. The thing will put a perfect 1/2 inch hole through a 1 inch plate. It all seems good until the punch bit snaps and goes shooting sideways fast enough to take your head off. fcuk that thing.

What everyone has to realize is the instructor is at fault, not the child. I have no idea why you would call this person an instructor because everything he did in the video is WRONG. I am sorry but AGE has nothing to do with this incident. That nine year old could have been twentyfour and you would have the same result. It is horrible to think that person was allowed on the range as an instructor. I also would not recommend a beginner handle an uzi for their first weapon as well - again, the so called instructor's fault. Plenty of full auto weapons to shoot and you are going to give someone an UZI???

Sorry... But where I live now, there are thousands of kids, YOUNG kids, using all sorts of "dangerous" (capable of chopping you into a million pieces in a few seconds) farm equipment from the time they're old enough to walk... Chain saws? Angle grinders? Ha!!! There are kids who do that shit day in and day out... The neighbor kids have been driving pick up trucks, bob cats, and tractors for YEARS... And they're like twelve now? You think a gun is dangerous? See what happens when a tractor flips onto somebody.... See what a combine does to flesh... But,the kids learn how to do it... Safely, and they're fine. And nobody thinks twice about it...

 

I hate talking about my past, damn I even hate remembering some of my past, but here it goes

 

I've been raised on a farm in the country, I grew up there and only moved to the city when I started to go to high school (best time of my life!!)

I went to work on the fields during school holidays from age 7 most mornings leaving the house at 4 AM and returning at 6 to 7 PM most days after school we would do farm work, except Sundays!

There were thousands of kids doing the same thing as I was doing. I saw plenty of accidents, more than I care to mention, I saw a girl getting killed by a tractor and the devastation that brought to the family and the local community, I saw her brother smashing his head in the wall until he was unconscious and trying to kill himself because of the loss of his dear sister, we were there because we HAD no choice not because it was fun, could we handle the tools and the tasks we were given? barely, we had NO choice, every single one of us children hated being there trust me on that, we hated the holidays!

 

I am not saying kids aren't doing adults things, it happens everyday all over the world, I am saying shit is dangerous and they shouldn't be doing it, see your own admission above.

I will not let my children do dangerous shit when I know they clearly aren't mentally and physically prepared due to their age and maturity level, there is absolutely zero need for children to handle guns and power tools when they are under 10 unless you live in a miserable God forsaken crap hole, that's the reason why I work my ass off everyday so I can afford my children a comfortable and pleasant life where they get to do things children are supposed to do, a life very different from the one I had.

 

Even though I have to listen to Wheel's arguments which clearly has zero experience with any of this other than, Internet, books or movies I am not judging anyone, just stating my opinion, everyone is free to handle their own family as they wish but I wouldn't want to be the father of the 9 year old who just killed a man whether being at fault or not, that would destroy my life and I am sure the life of my child and I would certainly blame myself for being an idiot for allowing my 9 year old handle a machine gun, but that's just me!

 

RIP to the guy who was killed, two families were destroyed instantly because of the poor decision of all of the adults involved.

 

As for guns, everyone here gets so defensive when someone mentions they don't like guns etc. This attitude makes it very hard for those who are of a different opinion to state their views. We don't always like the same things and that's what makes life interesting.

 

Personally I don't dislike guns just as I don't dislike a good angle grinder, I am not obsessed with guns as I am not obsessed with angle grinders and I don't get the shits with anyone who doesn't like what I like, maybe sometimes but I try to keep it to myself

 

Shooting is fun I haven't met anyone who tried and didn't like it, my grandfather was a cop also involved with the local hunting club, organizing hunting trips in the local forests for international hunters, I was around guns most of my childhood, I got to clean more damn guns than I care to remember LOL, good adrenaline when you shoot them, I know how it feels and I enjoy it, I went shooting few times here but lost interest after a while, not really my thing.

 

I hate talking about my past, damn I even hate remembering some of my past, but here it goes

 

I've been raised on a farm in the country, I grew up there and only moved to the city when I started to go to high school (best time of my life!!)

I went to work on the fields during school holidays from age 7 most mornings leaving the house at 4 AM and returning at 6 to 7 PM most days after school we would do farm work, except Sundays!

There were thousands of kids doing the same thing as I was doing. I saw plenty of accidents, more than I care to mention, I saw a girl getting killed by a tractor and the devastation that brought to the family and the local community, I saw her brother smashing his head in the wall until he was unconscious and trying to kill himself because of the loss of his dear sister, we were there because we HAD no choice not because it was fun, could we handle the tools and the tasks we were given? barely, we had NO choice, every single one of us children hated being there trust me on that, we hated the holidays!

 

I am not saying kids aren't doing adults things, it happens everyday all over the world, I am saying shit is dangerous and they shouldn't be doing it, see your own admission above.

I will not let my children do dangerous shit when I know they clearly aren't mentally and physically prepared due to their age and maturity level, there is absolutely zero need for children to handle guns and power tools when they are under 10 unless you live in a miserable God forsaken crap hole, that's the reason why I work my ass off everyday so I can afford my children a comfortable and pleasant life where they get to do things children are supposed to do, a life very different from the one I had.

 

Even though I have to listen to Wheel's arguments which clearly has zero experience with any of this other than, Internet, books or movies I am not judging anyone, just stating my opinion, everyone is free to handle their own family as they wish but I wouldn't want to be the father of the 9 year old who just killed a man whether being at fault or not, that would destroy my life and I am sure the life of my child and I would certainly blame myself for being an idiot for allowing my 9 year old handle a machine gun, but that's just me!

 

RIP to the guy who was killed, two families were destroyed instantly because of the poor decision of all of the adults involved.

 

As for guns, everyone here gets so defensive when someone mentions they don't like guns etc. This attitude makes it very hard for those who are of a different opinion to state their views. We don't always like the same things and that's what makes life interesting.

 

Personally I don't dislike guns just as I don't dislike a good angle grinder, I am not obsessed with guns as I am not obsessed with angle grinders and I don't get the shits with anyone who doesn't like what I like, maybe sometimes but I try to keep it to myself

 

Shooting is fun I haven't met anyone who tried and didn't like it, my grandfather was a cop also involved with the local hunting club, organizing hunting trips in the local forests for international hunters, I was around guns most of my childhood, I got to clean more damn guns than I care to remember LOL, good adrenaline when you shoot them, I know how it feels and I enjoy it, I went shooting few times here but lost interest after a while, not really my thing.

 

And I go the other way... I can't take all the risk out of my kids life... (Nor do we want to, we learn more from our scars than we do from our trophies) But I can put it in perspective... And make sure that when he eventually does something dangerous, I've given him the training and common sense to be cautious... And to put safety first...

 

What everyone has to realize is the instructor is at fault, not the child. I have no idea why you would call this person an instructor because everything he did in the video is WRONG. I am sorry but AGE has nothing to do with this incident. That nine year old could have been twentyfour and you would have the same result. It is horrible to think that person was allowed on the range as an instructor. I also would not recommend a beginner handle an uzi for their first weapon as well - again, the so called instructor's fault. Plenty of full auto weapons to shoot and you are going to give someone an UZI???

 

 

Not just an Uzi... A Mimi Uzi... And you and I are probably the only two who get the difference. Now get your ass into the gun thread and get working on my birthday present.

And I go the other way... I can't take all the risk out of my kids life... (Nor do we want to, we learn more from our scars than we do from our trophies) But I can put it in perspective... And make sure that when he eventually does something dangerous, I've given him the training and common sense to be cautious... And to put safety first...

 

I agree and I do exactly the same, nothing comes on a silver platter for my children, they have to earn everything and I allow them to make their own mistakes but to what degree I am exposing them to dangers which I can control is my own decision to make and that's based on a number of factors, if I lived in the middle of the forest surrounded by deadly animals I'd probably teach them how to shoot but the only things they might have to kill from time to time are spiders

 

 

Not just an Uzi... A Mimi Uzi... And you and I are probably the only two who get the difference.

 

Hey now!

I started shooting at 10 yo at an away YMCA camp. I went for tennis (which I promptly discovered I hated). I recently found a letter I wrote home about how excited I was to shoot a rifle (it was a .22).

 

We taught my nephew to shoot when he was 10. We DRILLED the safety rules in, and slowly, gradually introduced him to more fire power -but we started with a .22 rifle. If he demonstrated that he wouldn't listen, follow instructions - it would have ended immediately. But he's a great kid - very mature and careful and always did as told. Never had to tell him twice about keeping the gun pointed down range, and we never gave him something we thought he couldn't handle (and all was done with his parent's permission).

 

It's tragic, and the girl will be affected the rest of her life. RIP to the man killed - I can't imagine the distress of his family. I agree that there is nothing wrong with children shooting - but start them at an appropriate level and slowly allow them to advance when they've demonstrated the skills necessary to handle more. Same as driving a car, swimming, or doing any task that has the potential to be deadly.

I hate talking about my past, damn I even hate remembering some of my past, but here it goes

 

I've been raised on a farm in the country, I grew up there and only moved to the city when I started to go to high school (best time of my life!!)

I went to work on the fields during school holidays from age 7 most mornings leaving the house at 4 AM and returning at 6 to 7 PM most days after school we would do farm work, except Sundays!

There were thousands of kids doing the same thing as I was doing. I saw plenty of accidents, more than I care to mention, I saw a girl getting killed by a tractor and the devastation that brought to the family and the local community, I saw her brother smashing his head in the wall until he was unconscious and trying to kill himself because of the loss of his dear sister, we were there because we HAD no choice not because it was fun, could we handle the tools and the tasks we were given? barely, we had NO choice, every single one of us children hated being there trust me on that, we hated the holidays!

 

I am not saying kids aren't doing adults things, it happens everyday all over the world, I am saying shit is dangerous and they shouldn't be doing it, see your own admission above.

I will not let my children do dangerous shit when I know they clearly aren't mentally and physically prepared due to their age and maturity level, there is absolutely zero need for children to handle guns and power tools when they are under 10 unless you live in a miserable God forsaken crap hole, that's the reason why I work my ass off everyday so I can afford my children a comfortable and pleasant life where they get to do things children are supposed to do, a life very different from the one I had.

 

Even though I have to listen to Wheel's arguments which clearly has zero experience with any of this other than, Internet, books or movies I am not judging anyone, just stating my opinion, everyone is free to handle their own family as they wish but I wouldn't want to be the father of the 9 year old who just killed a man whether being at fault or not, that would destroy my life and I am sure the life of my child and I would certainly blame myself for being an idiot for allowing my 9 year old handle a machine gun, but that's just me!

 

RIP to the guy who was killed, two families were destroyed instantly because of the poor decision of all of the adults involved.

 

As for guns, everyone here gets so defensive when someone mentions they don't like guns etc. This attitude makes it very hard for those who are of a different opinion to state their views. We don't always like the same things and that's what makes life interesting.

 

Personally I don't dislike guns just as I don't dislike a good angle grinder, I am not obsessed with guns as I am not obsessed with angle grinders and I don't get the shits with anyone who doesn't like what I like, maybe sometimes but I try to keep it to myself

 

Shooting is fun I haven't met anyone who tried and didn't like it, my grandfather was a cop also involved with the local hunting club, organizing hunting trips in the local forests for international hunters, I was around guns most of my childhood, I got to clean more damn guns than I care to remember LOL, good adrenaline when you shoot them, I know how it feels and I enjoy it, I went shooting few times here but lost interest after a while, not really my thing.

 

+1. We are on the same page.

 

Kids are Kids.some of them have the attention span of a dog… I would NEVER allow my kids to touch my guns. I have them in a safe with finger print access. When my son turns 18 I will take him to the gun range and allow him to fire it. Our job as parents is to make sure they have minimal risk until they can be fully grown up. I understand in certain parts of the US its normal.. here in vegas they have no reason to take a chance.

Even though I have to listen to Wheel's arguments which clearly has zero experience with any of this other than, Internet, books or movies

 

 

Fortis, I actually agree with you on the bit about jackhammers and power saws and so forth, but the difference between those and guns is that there are not child-appropriate variants of those for children like there are with guns. With a gun for a small child, you'd start them off with something very weak, like a .22 caliber. In addition, one round in the gun at a time. A jackhammer, chain saw, power saw, etc...totally different. If the child loses control of the gun when shooting off the one round, well that's it, only one round fired. If the child loses control of the chainsaw, jackhammer, etc...that could be a huge recipe for disaster.

 

Also Fortis, I was not debating you because of an impression that you don't like guns. That doesn't matter to me one way or another. However you feel about guns, that is A-Okay with me I just thought you had some misconceptions about the dangers guns pose to children in comparison to other things that can harm children that people don't think about much.

Shooting or no shooting, I do think all parents, at least in America where guns are prevalent, ought to teach their kids the basics about guns so that they know what NOT to do if they ever encounter one while say playing at a friend's house or whatnot, like if they find a loaded gun in a sock drawer or something (this happened and the one kid shot the other one, thinking it was a toy). If the kid is familiar with the gun and knows that it is NOT something for them to touch or mess with, that they should go get an adult immediately, that could prevent some accidents.

Wheels what experience do you have with this other than what you've gathered from what I suggested above?

 

Revisit some of your opinions if/when you will have your own children, my views prior and after having them completely changed, becoming a parent is a major event in ones life, there is a switch inside your head which goes off and you will never be the same, you won't think the same, until your switch goes off try to stay off the subject

 

You remind me of myself prior having children, initially I never wanted any, that's why I waited so long, I used to tell my mom if I ever have any I will do this and that and they won't do this and that and she was just shaking her head laughing.

 

When I found out my wife was pregnant I was happy but I didn't really know how to feel, I was overwhelmed by all sorts of emotions, when I first held my child in my arms I started crying like a baby myself let me assure you I am not the crying type!

 

Something hit me at that exact moment and I couldn't explain what it was, I am sure many first time parents go trough the same emotions, things started making sense, the work we do, the struggles with go through, etc. everything started to have some sort of a purpose, and things progressd from there, I look at my children as the beings I would happily give my life for in an instant without hesitation, in have never felt that before to such extent, when you experience those feelings come back and let me know how comfortable you will be with seeing your 9 year old with a fricking machine gun in her hand!

 

I am crapping my pants when I see them running around on bicycles, I know I shouldn't but I can not help the way I feel, it is what it is!

I look at my children as the beings I would happily give my life for in an instant without hesitation, in have never felt that before to such extent, when you experience those feelings come back and let me know how comfortable you will be with seeing your 9 year old with a fricking machine gun in her hand!

 

I am crapping my pants when I see them running around on bicycles, I know I shouldn't but I can not help the way I feel, it is what it is!

 

Well as said, I would never let a child fire a machine gun, only a size/strength appropriate gun with one round at a time. However, I understand what you are saying. Not from a personal experience standpoint, but I mean you are saying you get very strong emotions on this subject when you have children that someone without children cannot relate directly to. Perhaps you are correct that if/when I have children I will get a changed view on the subject. But even without children, I would never let a child handle a machine gun.

Well it took a few posts, but we got back to the default setting on how these threads go soon enough..

 

This one can be loosely described as:

 

Rest of World: Why the fu&k would you give a 9 year old girl a UZI machine gun to practice with?

 

USA: Why the fu&k wouldn't you give a 9 year old girl....etc etc...

 

I tell you this much though:

 

If you try and take my angle grinder away from me you will have to pry it from my cold,dead hands!

Well it took a few posts, but we got back to the default setting on how these threads go soon enough..

 

This one can be loosely described as:

 

Rest of World: Why the fu&k would you give a 9 year old girl a UZI machine gun to practice with?

 

USA: Why the fu&k wouldn't you give a 9 year old girl....etc etc...

 

I tell you this much though:

 

If you try and take my angle grinder away from me you will have to pry it from my cold,dead hands!

Bingo.

 

I am all for education, but surely there must be some understanding of what and when is acceptable.

 

Well it took a few posts, but we got back to the default setting on how these threads go soon enough..

 

This one can be loosely described as:

 

Rest of World: Why the fu&k would you give a 9 year old girl a UZI machine gun to practice with?

 

USA: Why the fu&k wouldn't you give a 9 year old girl....etc etc...

 

I tell you this much though:

 

If you try and take my angle grinder away from me you will have to pry it from my cold,dead hands!

Subject: Re: Scary gun memo

Dear Rest of the world,

We hear you. We don't care.

Signed, Upper Management.

Subject: Re: Scary gun memo

Dear Rest of the world,

We hear you. We don't care.

Signed, Upper Management.

You want to take down the bullshit picture, or shall I?

 

 

If you're interested in having a real conversation, I'd be happy to engage you...

 

 

You seem to be implying the child made some sort of judgement error.... It's quite clear from the video, she knew the seriousness, and she knew the rules... And she was doing everything right... This has nothing to do with her being too mentally immature to handle shooting a gun... She wasn't driving a car unaccompanied... She was shooting a gun under close adult supervision... Unfortunately the supervision turned out to be incompetent...

 

It's because she was too PHYSICALLY immature, and inexperienced, to fire that particular gun, on full auto...

 

 

 

Here's a 13 year old girl shooting a gun, for some other reason than killing people... Guess what? She's probably been shooting since she was a lot younger than nine... And I'd sit on a firing line with her with zero reservations...

 

 

 

Sorry if the funny meme was taken seriously or caused offence. I still think its funny.

 

Not at one single moment did I say, nor imply indirectly nor directly, that the child made some sort of judgement. You do realise a big chunk of my post was part quote of a previous post?

 

The main point of my post, which clearly did not get through, is that the laws in USA are inconsistent and frankly quite ridiculous in my view. I just took three examples to compare (gun age, driving age, drinking age). Before you get all nationalistic and think I am attacking your nation, relax, I am not. In the same way there are ridiculous laws in Europe too. I'm not trying to say yes/no to laws; what drives me nuts is the inconsistency of certain laws. Why is one allowed to use a killing weapon at 9yrs old, but you can't have a cold sip of beer, until 21yrs old. Why the need to wait 12yrs extra?

 

Happy to have a normal conversation at any point.

Subject: Re: Scary gun memo

Dear Rest of the world,

We hear you. We don't care.

Signed, Upper Management.

Yeah, you can keep such tragic accidents for yourself upper management, thx!

 

Yeah, you can keep such tragic accidents for yourself upper management, thx!

Ban all the steers! Keep automatic cattle away from children

http://globalnews.ca/news/1504956/deaths-a...ise-in-austria/

 

Shit happens every where brotha. Yesterday 270 million responsible US gun owners didn't kill anyone.

Keeping up with the weird news out of Vienna:

 

http://metro.co.uk/2014/06/18/naked-sunbat...ustria-4766142/

 

 

On a separate and maybe related note....

 

I was not allowed to bring gel pepper spray into Canada and had to voluntarily relinquish it to the Crown. I was told it would be shipped to a warehouse and destroyed (and I don't know why but I immediately pictured the warehouse in New Jersey which makes no sense Probably from watching too many episodes of Sopranos)

 

After reading the Canadian border regulations, it sounds like if I brought my handgun I could have surrendered it at the border and gotten a receipt and then retrieved it on my way back to the States.

 

No pepper spray??? Canada allows NO weapons of any sort.

Keeping up with the weird news out of Vienna:

 

http://metro.co.uk/2014/06/18/naked-sunbat...ustria-4766142/

 

Do you really want weird news from the states? How much time have you got

 

Come on let's get real, we are on a website where we talk about European cars, watches, architecture, fashion, culture, sports, etc. etc. I appreciate patriotism but you can't turn a blind eye on facts