Lamborghini's originality.

I know the majority of us are enthusiasts and love the brand to death, but I keep reading comments like: "Lamborghini isn't original anymore" "The Aventador is an Audi supercar." "The Huracan is an Audi Supercar." "The car doesn't have the Bizarrini V12 so it's no longer a true Lambo." The way I view Lamborghini is similar to the way I think of Pagani. While there are many things Pagani borrows (i.e.: the engine, the cheap AC unit from a fiat or something like that, other minor parts and details), ultimately, it's still Pagani's/Lamborghini's creation and both brands are hand built with pride. People fail to realize that there are still a group of very skilled craftsmen building the Aventador (albeit with better tools and machines), and even the Huracan (regardless of how much it shares with the Audi R8). There was a dedicated group of people who came together to design the car (A or H) and these cars are really the best looking cars on the road IMO. They still carry the ridiculous sense of Unicorns and Spacecrafts that Lamborghini has always had. I just don't feel as though they are getting the credit that they deserve that the brand once had during the Miura and Countach era. What are your thoughts?

Hater will hate. With every generation there's a group and says it's diluting the brand or getting less original. People said it about the Countach, about the Diablo, Murci, and Aventador. I think Lambo still makes the most bada$$ car on the market and they craft a top quality product. To each their own but the Bull fights on.

Same can be said about Ferrari as well.

 

Audi engineering brought reliability and safety. The Huracan is pretty soul less in my opinion. Aventador still has drama, looks and flash. If money is no object, I would take a 6.0 vt and a 50th aventador. Nothing more iconic, capable than these two.

Same can be said about Ferrari as well.

 

Audi engineering brought reliability and safety. The Huracan is pretty soul less in my opinion. Aventador still has drama, looks and flash. If money is no object, I would take a 6.0 vt and a 50th aventador. Nothing more iconic, capable than these two.

 

No aventador is iconic Lambo. Countach and Miura are the icons.

I don't like to own old cars so for me the latest and greatest is always a must, going forward in life is more important than being stuck in the past, I don't care when people cry about the heritage

 

 

I just don't feel as though they are getting the credit that they deserve that the brand once had during the Miura and Countach era. What are your thoughts?

 

 

Let me explain why they do not deserve the credit.

 

Old Lambos were rare. Now they are seen as blasé due to social media, ill conceived production volumes and how the competitors stack up.

Back in 2009 I wrote This

 

VW ownership introduced many many good things and they were doing well. But since then they have produced

 

-Who knows how many special editions of the Gallardo

 

-A car that is very heavy using an outdated ill conceived monocoque chassis which they had to redesign to make into a roadster.

 

-Ditched Lambo doors in the traditional sense.

 

-Created a centre for carbon fibre development which only seems to have developed a heavy piece of carbon fibre which is compressed and not even close to being aesthetically pleasing as normal carbon fibre.

 

-Failed to adequately benchmark their cars against the competition which given that the company was based upon a direct comparison with Ferrari.

 

-Have produced cars solely for emerging markets, the Urus and the well documented fact that they engineered the Huracan to be safer - launch packs for the press more or less pointed at Asia.

 

-Produced an overly safe replacement car to the Gallardo which only seems to have styling tweaks, gearbox and dashboard as being the bonus points. But in the main money spinner the spider, they have massively restricted cabin space.

 

 

If you were to look at that list of cars from 2009 and draw a venn diagram there would be very little overlap, now there is a massive overlap.

The R8 is quicker than the Huracan and has been more engineered on every point. The only minus point for the R8 is that the dash and front end have been designed using lego bricks. AV SV aside they have lost that edgy freshness, yes the Huracan does look good but how long will it remain to do so? Look at a LP560 spider, how good does that still look?

But even that car does not hold a candle to the real icons they have produced. They have become arrogant and lacking. I actually don't think it is Lamborghini's fault though, I think the man that was at the top has become overly arrogant and the people above him push for large sales numbers from a company that was a boutique. VW wants sales from Audi who in turn want sales from Lambo.

If they invested into a more unique product then I think the sales will naturally follow. Lambo needs to be Lambo and not a redressed Audi.

 

they are very nice cars and very well made sport cars but now most of the cars is german tec., developed by Audi in Germany.

the old V12 was made at factory in Sant #### and an italian project, aventador V12 is a german engine.

 

do you know why they put an italian as new CEO?

i think to make they look more "italian" again because a lot of people says now lamborghini is 90% audi

Let me explain why they do not deserve the credit.

 

Old Lambos were rare. Now they are seen as blasé due to social media, ill conceived production volumes and how the competitors stack up.

Back in 2009 I wrote This

 

VW ownership introduced many many good things and they were doing well. But since then they have produced

 

-Who knows how many special editions of the Gallardo

 

-A car that is very heavy using an outdated ill conceived monocoque chassis which they had to redesign to make into a roadster.

 

-Ditched Lambo doors in the traditional sense.

 

-Created a centre for carbon fibre development which only seems to have developed a heavy piece of carbon fibre which is compressed and not even close to being aesthetically pleasing as normal carbon fibre.

 

-Failed to adequately benchmark their cars against the competition which given that the company was based upon a direct comparison with Ferrari.

 

-Have produced cars solely for emerging markets, the Urus and the well documented fact that they engineered the Huracan to be safer - launch packs for the press more or less pointed at Asia.

 

-Produced an overly safe replacement car to the Gallardo which only seems to have styling tweaks, gearbox and dashboard as being the bonus points. But in the main money spinner the spider, they have massively restricted cabin space.

 

 

If you were to look at that list of cars from 2009 and draw a venn diagram there would be very little overlap, now there is a massive overlap.

The R8 is quicker than the Huracan and has been more engineered on every point. The only minus point for the R8 is that the dash and front end have been designed using lego bricks. AV SV aside they have lost that edgy freshness, yes the Huracan does look good but how long will it remain to do so? Look at a LP560 spider, how good does that still look?

But even that car does not hold a candle to the real icons they have produced. They have become arrogant and lacking. I actually don't think it is Lamborghini's fault though, I think the man that was at the top has become overly arrogant and the people above him push for large sales numbers from a company that was a boutique. VW wants sales from Audi who in turn want sales from Lambo.

If they invested into a more unique product then I think the sales will naturally follow. Lambo needs to be Lambo and not a redressed Audi.

 

 

 

The new R8, please don't believe the BS you read online, the car is very different from the Huracan in terms of feel, driving experience and there is no way the R8 is faster, I recently spent about 8 hours driving the new R8 plus in various environments and situations, great car but different from a Huracan.

 

 

Lamborghini isn't unoriginal but it's not anywhere near the craftsmanship and uniqueness of a Pagani. Plus your buying the car from the creator himself when it comes to Pagani. Lamborghini is just a brand and so is Ferrari. The original founder is long dead and many of the people that were working with him are no longer in the company. Basically this is how I would put it. Pagani is like buying Art from the amazing artist himself. Lamborghini is like buying it from an excellent artist who thinks that this is what the original artist would've wanted to create if he was still alive. Both are awesome but there's a reason why Pagani costs so much more.

The new R8, please don't believe the BS you read online, the car is very different from the Huracan in terms of feel, driving experience and there is no way the R8 is faster, I recently spent about 8 hours driving the new R8 plus in various environments and situations, great car but different from a Huracan.

Looking forward to you posting times quicker than these then

I don't like to own old cars so for me the latest and greatest is always a must, going forward in life is more important than being stuck in the past, I don't care when people cry about the heritage

 

It's not really about being stuck in the past. Some people just like the raw feeling they get from a manual gearbox, loud, rough, high revving, V12 monster that doesn't have nanny systems to stop you from crashing. It's exciting. Don't me get wrong I'm a young tech geek and love the latest and greatest but I'm also in love with machinery and trying tame a beast with skill and hard work is a personal turn on. I can see me liking flappy pedals if it was a D/D but for a fun car nothing will replace stick imo.

Those that think it was Audi's fault, you're all wrong. Every V12 after the Miura wasn't a "true" Lamborghini. Ferruccio founded Lamborghini to create businessmen's expresses, you can't tell me the Countach is a businessman's express, let alone the Diablo, Murcielago or Aventador. In reality the Gallardo and Huracan are closer to the original ethos of Lamborghini than any of the v12's were.

 

So really, things change, let it go, embrace what good the company puts out, and laugh at all the Ferrari boys like you always have.

Looking forward to you posting times quicker than these then

 

I drove them back to back the R8 wasn't faster.

 

My friend in his Huracan ran 10.4 1/4 mile without any previous experience more than once.

 

Go and test drive them for yourself then come back here to report your findings.

 

Edit:

 

Here you go, found some stats

 

http://fastestlaps.com/models/lamborghini-huracan-lp-610-4

 

It's not really about being stuck in the past. Some people just like the raw feeling they get from a manual gearbox, loud, rough, high revving, V12 monster that doesn't have nanny systems to stop you from crashing. It's exciting. Don't me get wrong I'm a young tech geek and love the latest and greatest but I'm also in love with machinery and trying tame a beast with skill and hard work is a personal turn on. I can see me liking flappy pedals if it was a D/D but for a fun car nothing will replace stick imo.

 

I have a similar appreciation for old machines but I wouldn't own one, mainly because I don't have the patience to deal with them yet, my views might change when I get older.

So the Hurcan is a pure car and not a thing wrong with it?

So the Hurcan is a pure car and not a thing wrong with it?

 

Depends on what you are talking about, I can't fault it but I am sure you do, it was my absolute favorite car and I was extremely sad to see it go, I can't fault the new R8 either, I thought it was incredible, every single one of the cars manufactured today are pretty much faultless, the tech is such that they can be, they are fast, safe, handle extremely well, hardly break down, what you go for comes down to what excites you the most, what you dreamt of when you were a kid, etc.

 

 

So the Hurcan is a pure car and not a thing wrong with it?

 

You remind me of Chris Harris, he rants about how Huracan is shit on Twitter, yet a couple of days ago he said that he has zero seat time in one, yet he keeps hating on it without have driven it. I'd say before hating on a product, test it first and then hate on it if you didn't like it.

 

Its kinda ignorant to say that the Huracan is just a re-bodied Gallardo with more HP when everything in it is brand new and never seen before in a Gallardo. The only thing that has carried over from Gallardo is the engine, which has been reworked for the Huracan.

 

Is a Huracan as pure as a Gallardo? In my opinion Huracan has been streamlined (like with any other product these days) in order to appeal for mass market, in order to sell. Thus it might have lost some of the raw purity 1st gen Gallardo had, but that doesnt mean its shit like Mr Harris will have you to believe.

 

Thats my 2 cents in it.

Lambo is what it is.

 

Here is what I believe. I sorta' call it the Lamborghini Jesus story. The company had humble beginnings, broke new ground, and made a name for itself through the 60s and 70s. The idea or role of exotic cars was about to enter a time of powerful change as the industry was meandering without a whole lot of guidance beyond racing.

 

I tell this story not to review with the old guys, but to help the young guys get a better feel for it since living it is different than reading about it. The Countach hit the scene and became the ultimate unobtainable exotic and lofty dream car. For years, you had to be a serious enthusiast to even know it existed and for years it couldn't be sold in the United States making it even more rare. Otherwise the general public was largely unaware, much like your mom is unlikely to recognize a Zonda if it appeared on the road next to her. Lamborghini was not yet a household name in 1980. Once the company was able to start exploiting foreign markets, the car took off and started to become the icon that everyone remembers on posters. It was still ultra rare, hand made, and extremely expensive as far as cars went. Extreme and polarizing, the car was so incredible that it alone could keep the company afloat for a limited time, but time got the best of Lamborghini's boutique business model at a time when such a thing was very uncommon and unknown to most of the world. The car lasted 19 years. 19 years! The Countach and the company died a natural death, but left a legacy of influence in younger generations that was unparalleled.

 

The Countach and Lamborghini was sacrificed ultimately so that we could live in the times we have today. The supercar market is hugely diverse, full of new ideas, and replete with customers completely unlike the '80s. With more enthusiasm and wider exposure, more money is being injected into car interests today than it ever was in the '80s. Regardless of whether individuals liked the Countach or not, kids were influenced by it in one way or another and grew up to create everything we see now. The Countach reset people's propensity to create extreme and imaginative things without so much fear. Dreams are powerful motivators. All of you who love your Huracans and Aventadors have this sacrifice to thank.

 

The mistake people seem to make is to gloss over the end of the '80s like nothing happened. It's not the same company. It can't ever be the same company. A Zonda and an Aventador are different animals. But we can't blanket-ly assess that any boutique business model will follow the same path. However, Pagani, Koeniggsegg, etc. as boutique car makers likely face a different future than Lamborghini did. On one hand, they are working in a different economy. On the other, they owe huge thanks to the singular sacrifice of Lamborghini so that others may live and flourish. The market boutique makers are selling into is wide, wealthy, willing, energetic, and enthusiastic. Young people today are exposed very early to a diverse selection of cars and will continue to be influenced in even more directions. Most will not even grasp what happened in 1987 and what it meant for the present day.

 

I remember Ducati motorcycles from the late 80s and early 90s. Compared with the big four Japanese manufacturers, they looked different, smelled different, felt different. They were a flavor all their own. Comparing a modern Lamborghini with a Diablo, Countach, or Miura is much the same. My Diablo doesn't smell like an old car and certainly doesn't smell like an Audi. It smells like those Ducatis...like something that was definitely made in a different country by different people with different ideas. There's nothing standard about it. I drove the Diablo when it was new in the early 90s, and it smelled the same then too. Unique and exotic. Today's cars are pretty standardized, except for the Pagani. Take a seat in that thing and you're in something crazy, definitely unique, and incredibly exotic. It is what it is. Any Lamborghini still qualifies as exotic and is something very special, but, whatever model it is, it needs to speak to the buyer's heart to be worth the purchase. As long as it does that, it's doing its job.

This is a continuous ongoing thread in one form or another. There will never be an answer since people want different things from their cars. Lamborghini needs to stay on par with it's competition, keep its old school fans happy, keep the share holders happy, and meet tougher epa and safety regulations. As sweet as it is to look at old Porsche 930's and Contach's with rose coloured glasses, they couldn't be made anymore anyway..so why keep flogging it. The Countach is an icon, and it's a great car if you can afford another supercar to enjoy more frequently. You could take the Huracan for a 5 hour drive up the pacific coast highway and wouldn't get out cramped and soaked in sweat. When I bought my Gallardo I could have bought 2 Countach's for the price but didn't because I knew I didn't have the time, energy, and funds to keep it running. I wanted a turnkey sports car. The Aventador and Huracan are the development of 50 years of culminated experience. VW group supplied the resources Lamborghini needed to survive. Otherwise they would be a company like Noble... or Pagani where each car is in the millions since 5 cars need to fund years of R&D. Anyways.... they still have the factory in Italy employing tons of the same work force...

I'd take the LP570 Superlegera any day over the Hurucan. I think that says a lot.

The Aventador SV is a lovely car but again 1100pcs? How is that even close to limited. Come on..

Its all about $$$ these days.

Im actually happy with where theyre at for the first time since the countach...

First off, the new cars are bad ass. I greatly enjoyed driving both and if I had the means, would daily a Huracan.

 

The Aventador needs a couple changes:

1. doors need to go up, DGAF what the reason for the way they open is.

2. make batwings open like Murci. The reverse scoops don't looks menacing, they look like someone forgot to shut them.

3. interior.. feels/looks like a really nice car, it doesn't have the "flare" which we've come to expect from a flagship Lambo.

--- Too much exposed plastic; flagship Lambos of the past are covered in alcantara, leather or carbon, they should stick with that motif (SV looks good)

--- The focal point of the interior when looking from outside the car a CD player (hide that crap behind the seats). I get that Lambo is making better use of the space in the cabin, but that looks like a cheap afterthought.

First off, the new cars are bad ass. I greatly enjoyed driving both and if I had the means, would daily a Huracan.

 

The Aventador needs a couple changes:

1. doors need to go up, DGAF what the reason for the way they open is.

2. make batwings open like Murci. The reverse scoops don't looks menacing, they look like someone forgot to shut them.

3. interior.. feels/looks like a really nice car, it doesn't have the "flare" which we've come to expect from a flagship Lambo.

--- Too much exposed plastic; flagship Lambos of the past are covered in alcantara, leather or carbon, they should stick with that motif (SV looks good)

--- The focal point of the interior when looking from outside the car a CD player (hide that crap behind the seats). I get that Lambo is making better use of the space in the cabin, but that looks like a cheap afterthought.

I thought there was far more plastic in the first generation Murci...or the first generation Diablo for that matter. It seems like a first run of a new model issue.

 

Lambo is what it is.

 

Here is what I believe. I sorta' call it the Lamborghini Jesus story. The company had humble beginnings, broke new ground, and made a name for itself through the 60s and 70s. The idea or role of exotic cars was about to enter a time of powerful change as the industry was meandering without a whole lot of guidance beyond racing.

 

I tell this story not to review with the old guys, but to help the young guys get a better feel for it since living it is different than reading about it. The Countach hit the scene and became the ultimate unobtainable exotic and lofty dream car. For years, you had to be a serious enthusiast to even know it existed and for years it couldn't be sold in the United States making it even more rare. Otherwise the general public was largely unaware, much like your mom is unlikely to recognize a Zonda if it appeared on the road next to her. Lamborghini was not yet a household name in 1980. Once the company was able to start exploiting foreign markets, the car took off and started to become the icon that everyone remembers on posters. It was still ultra rare, hand made, and extremely expensive as far as cars went. Extreme and polarizing, the car was so incredible that it alone could keep the company afloat for a limited time, but time got the best of Lamborghini's boutique business model at a time when such a thing was very uncommon and unknown to most of the world. The car lasted 19 years. 19 years! The Countach and the company died a natural death, but left a legacy of influence in younger generations that was unparalleled.

 

The Countach and Lamborghini was sacrificed ultimately so that we could live in the times we have today. The supercar market is hugely diverse, full of new ideas, and replete with customers completely unlike the '80s. With more enthusiasm and wider exposure, more money is being injected into car interests today than it ever was in the '80s. Regardless of whether individuals liked the Countach or not, kids were influenced by it in one way or another and grew up to create everything we see now. The Countach reset people's propensity to create extreme and imaginative things without so much fear. Dreams are powerful motivators. All of you who love your Huracans and Aventadors have this sacrifice to thank.

 

The mistake people seem to make is to gloss over the end of the '80s like nothing happened. It's not the same company. It can't ever be the same company. A Zonda and an Aventador are different animals. But we can't blanket-ly assess that any boutique business model will follow the same path. However, Pagani, Koeniggsegg, etc. as boutique car makers likely face a different future than Lamborghini did. On one hand, they are working in a different economy. On the other, they owe huge thanks to the singular sacrifice of Lamborghini so that others may live and flourish. The market boutique makers are selling into is wide, wealthy, willing, energetic, and enthusiastic. Young people today are exposed very early to a diverse selection of cars and will continue to be influenced in even more directions. Most will not even grasp what happened in 1987 and what it meant for the present day.

 

I remember Ducati motorcycles from the late 80s and early 90s. Compared with the big four Japanese manufacturers, they looked different, smelled different, felt different. They were a flavor all their own. Comparing a modern Lamborghini with a Diablo, Countach, or Miura is much the same. My Diablo doesn't smell like an old car and certainly doesn't smell like an Audi. It smells like those Ducatis...like something that was definitely made in a different country by different people with different ideas. There's nothing standard about it. I drove the Diablo when it was new in the early 90s, and it smelled the same then too. Unique and exotic. Today's cars are pretty standardized, except for the Pagani. Take a seat in that thing and you're in something crazy, definitely unique, and incredibly exotic. It is what it is. Any Lamborghini still qualifies as exotic and is something very special, but, whatever model it is, it needs to speak to the buyer's heart to be worth the purchase. As long as it does that, it's doing its job.

 

I love the way you express yourself in writing, you've got a gift

First off, the new cars are bad ass. I greatly enjoyed driving both and if I had the means, would daily a Huracan.

 

The Aventador needs a couple changes:

1. doors need to go up, DGAF what the reason for the way they open is.

2. make batwings open like Murci. The reverse scoops don't looks menacing, they look like someone forgot to shut them.

3. interior.. feels/looks like a really nice car, it doesn't have the "flare" which we've come to expect from a flagship Lambo.

--- Too much exposed plastic; flagship Lambos of the past are covered in alcantara, leather or carbon, they should stick with that motif (SV looks good)

--- The focal point of the interior when looking from outside the car a CD player (hide that crap behind the seats). I get that Lambo is making better use of the space in the cabin, but that looks like a cheap afterthought.

 

whiteout I agree with yiur comments about the interior, any more than this is a waste