aventador @ underground racing

Understand what govt regulations worldwide a manufacturer is up against when building a vehicle.

 

For whatever reason, the exhaust used works for what they need it to, Almost all OEM exhausts are too restrictive, heavy, and meant to work across a variety of situations.

 

You have to have an exhaust that works across all RPM ranges. If you watch the torque curves on an aftermarket exhaust, the HP or or TQ figures are usually higher than OEM, but most will drop in certain areas on the curve.

 

Its a balance of compromise, and they have to do the best they can.

I completely understand the world regs part, but other companies have the same issue too yet the packaging of their product is a bit tighter and lighter, looking at the merc AMG V12 unit supplied to Pagani and although we are talking a different price point the result is much more refined in presentation and weight. I am not knocking it as there are few mid v12s these days but more being inquisitive about the designs functionality.

Was the size of the V12 unit itself a factor in the design of the exhaust because you mentioned earlier about the room in the bay.

Also is it true that changing the exhaust is going to flash up lots of warnings because it is feeding a signal to the ECU?

The pressure sensors in the exhaust will make this car hard to mod.

 

I think one possible solution would be a device that plugs to the sensor and alters the voltage sent back to the ecu.

 

Cars with airflow sensors max out after turbocharging or an increased boost pressure, triggering the ecu to run the car in a safe or limp mode.

A solution to this is a device that would intercept the voltage signal sent to the ecu, and keep its within the limiting parameters.

 

 

Wouldn't a MOTEC system replace some of the factory computers? Allowing for the deletion of certain sensors that may cause the car to go into limp mode. I don't really know for sure but I'm guessing that turbocharging it on the OEM computers is impossible.

 

/speculation

Welcome to the jungle, RSA. Hope you continue your contributions to the forum.

 

All I can say is this: It takes some SERIOUS cajones to buy a brand new Aventador and immediately route it over to UGR for the magic treatment. And some fcuking serious, no-nonsense $$$$$, too! There are probably billionaires who would NEVER have the guts to do that, even though they have the money! Major respect to whoever owns that car!

I made one brash post. I apologized for it.He apologized for the confusion. We made nice.

Are you looking to continue this further? Im not quite sure why you would undermine Porter, and other members publicly and if you had an issue not discuss it with me? We can talk about it if you think Captain chaos,Porter and other members reprimanding me weren't enough. I already said that I was being immature and I said " I obviously made a mistake and it also appears that I'm becoming a burden on other members so I think a break from this board will improve my attitude and make it a more enjoyable place for others trying to enjoy themselves. "

What would please you?

 

Some things you cannot discuss and believe me you don't want me to get into it with you. Stop being so goddam aggressive and oversensitive at the same time. You like to dish but you get your panties in a knot when receiving . Talk about drama queen or attention whore, i am not sure which one.

Yes it is true about the exhaust. If the pressure sensors see a change in the exhaust pulse rates from what it is mapped to see it will go into a limp home mode. It will turn on the EPC light (electronic power control) I believe the check engine light and it WILL limit RPM to 5,000 RPM.

the LP-700 uses a completely new Engine Management system, with lots of thought put into how to slow down or eliminate modifications.

 

Am I reading that correctly ... Lamborghini corporate is purposely trying to prevent people from tuning Lambos?

Am I reading that correctly ... Lamborghini corporate is purposely trying to prevent people from tuning Lambos?

 

Nissan did the same with the GTR

Am I reading that correctly ... Lamborghini corporate is purposely trying to prevent people from tuning Lambos?

 

Probably, and it doesn't mean shit if you eliminate the factory PCM. Making the factory digital gauges will probably be a PITA, and who knows about the e-gear. At any rate, the physical issues of plumbing and mounting the turbos will be fast and simple. Controlling them may or may not prove to be a challenge.

 

*I* could have a fabricated turbo kit on that car in time for SEMA, from a marketing perspective I would all but expect it.

I made one brash post. I apologized for it.He apologized for the confusion. We made nice.

Are you looking to continue this further? Im not quite sure why you would undermine Porter, and other members publicly and if you had an issue not discuss it with me? We can talk about it if you think Captain chaos,Porter and other members reprimanding me weren't enough. I already said that I was being immature and I said " I obviously made a mistake and it also appears that I'm becoming a burden on other members so I think a break from this board will improve my attitude and make it a more enjoyable place for others trying to enjoy themselves. "

What would please you?

 

 

I think you continue to be aggressive and immature

I think you continue to be aggressive and immature

At what point do you think you are entitled to add anything? Were you involved with the earlier discussions? No.

Are you part of the moderators team? No.

 

In other words, I think you need to butt out.

All discussions that feature Rob or anyone else that said stupid things can be done through pm or in the ask mods section- whoever fails to do so wins a long holiday.

We have a great chance to learn and clarify items to do with this car with a person that knows and people want to corrupt the thread with petty schoolground nonsense.

Nissan did the same with the GTR

 

 

True, Nissan made it "Difficult" but I think factories are starting to understand the need for aaftermarket support, that it moves cars, in the end.

 

In some occasions the factory actually helps owners get what they want...

 

With the LP-700 the exhaust valve that opens for a more "sporty" sound would NOT pass regulations in some countries... Lamborghini has bypassed this by coming up with an explanation for needing this by calling it an "exhaust cooling system" - claiming in some descriptions that the valves allow the exhaust to vent and not overheat.

 

In this case, they have gone above and beyond to provide owners the experience they are looking for.

 

Factories are not all bad.

 

 

I think John Reed and the guys at Motec are going to have fun tearing all those computers out and running it all off of their Stand Alone unit.

 

Should save some weight too I think most tuners find it fun when the factories make it more challenging by throwing them a

 

curve ball with multiple units that control multiple things. I am interested to see how long it takes them to work this out, and what the outcome is.

Tuners are definitely going to have their work cut out for them it seems! I guess the fact that the newest car I've owned has been an 05, I have missed out on all these electronic and ECU changes/advancements.

Am I reading that correctly ... Lamborghini corporate is purposely trying to prevent people from tuning Lambos?

 

I don't think they are making thees changes to prevent tuning but to meet what is required of them. That said most tuning as you want to call it makes the cars non compliant with emission laws unless the system including just a exhaust have to be certified with the states it will be used in.

 

It is against the law in some states to modify many of the systems on a engine. Changing the exhaust system can get you a ticket if the officer knows it been changes.

 

Cars with added turbos fail a smog test just on a visual insp.. It dose not mater what the tail pipe readings are it fails just for the fact that a non certified system was added.

 

I'm in CA. we do have some of the tightest emission laws.

True, Nissan made it "Difficult" but I think factories are starting to understand the need for aaftermarket support, that it moves cars, in the end.

 

In some occasions the factory actually helps owners get what they want...

 

With the LP-700 the exhaust valve that opens for a more "sporty" sound would NOT pass regulations in some countries... Lamborghini has bypassed this by coming up with an explanation for needing this by calling it an "exhaust cooling system" - claiming in some descriptions that the valves allow the exhaust to vent and not overheat.

 

In this case, they have gone above and beyond to provide owners the experience they are looking for.

 

Factories are not all bad.

I think a company like Nissan has learned to understand the value of the aftermarket in that the GTR has always been a car that has fared well in the aftermarket and has benefited as a result. I am sure Nissan is aware of the power various tuners are netting with simple mods, up to the full builds that are putting down well over 1,000hp to the wheels which is further building the reputation that the GTR already has from factory numbers and specs. Nissan benefits from this publicity and from the knowledge of how easy it is to make more power, as I'm sure many people are purchasing the GTR knowing that they can take the car as far as their wallets and comfort level permit.

 

I very well could be wrong, but I think a company such as Lamborghini, may have a different view in regards to the aftermarket. While I'm sure Lamborghini knows about UGR and their 250+mph cars; I'm not sure they will have the same loving or thankful view towards UGR as Nissan does with GTR tuners, since they may feel it detracts from what a Lamborghini is. I also, believe that Lamborghini may be inclined to make it harder for individuals to change the exhaust, due to as you have said; they have tried very hard to deliver what they believe to be the best compromise of sound, performance, and adherence to various laws or regulations. Lamborghini may want to preserve what they feel to be the optimal sound and not make it easy for someone to ruin the car with an obnoxiously loud exhaust system.

 

As I said I could be wrong, these are just my opinions and a guess at why they make take steps to make modifications more difficult.

 

I would like to thank you for sticking around on the board and giving us such great insight and information. It's great to hear that Lamborghini is taking the necessary steps to ensure that they are able to deliver a product that the consumer wants, even if they have to bend some rules or find loopholes.

GTR's easily being tuned has definitely help move units. Tons of owners even on here have bought them just because of how easy is it is to make them very quick. It's a bit different for Lamborghini though because their cars cost $400K. There are a lot of guys on here who will easily spring for a GTR, but who won't/can't be so quick to do the same for an Aventador.

 

It's not easy selling $400K cars. Lamborghini needs to have some of the fastest, best performing cars in the world in order to sell them. I don't think it helps them that people can now buy a Lamborghini that is way faster than their flagship car for only a fraction of the price. 5-10 years ago there may have been modded cars that were faster, but they didn't look like Lamborghinis. Even if a Murcielago was slower than some modded Mustang, it still looked really fcuking cool and was still one of a kind. Now though, you can have that look and feel but with way more performance than the factory will ever give you.

GTR's easily being tuned has definitely help move units. Tons of owners even on here have bought them just because of how easy is it is to make them very quick. It's a bit different for Lamborghini though because their cars cost $400K. There are a lot of guys on here who will easily spring for a GTR, but who won't/can't be so quick to do the same for an Aventador.

 

It's not easy selling $400K cars. Lamborghini needs to have some of the fastest, best performing cars in the world in order to sell them. I don't think it helps them that people can now buy a Lamborghini that is way faster than their flagship car for only a fraction of the price. 5-10 years ago there may have been modded cars that were faster, but they didn't look like Lamborghinis. Even if a Murcielago was slower than some modded Mustang, it still looked really fcuking cool and was still one of a kind. Now though, you can have that look and feel but with way more performance than the factory will ever give you.

 

I believe that is exactly why cars are coming out with the performance numbers out of the box that they are these days. Simply because a guy who spends $170,000 on a Porsche Turbo S does not want to get beaten on badly by a stock Z0-H-6.

 

The lower tier fast cars, such as the z-0h-6, GTR, etc are what are pushing the envelope for the upper echelon super cars to need to be as fast as they are.

 

I also believe Lambo would sell much more volume on their entry level car (Gallardo Succesor) if they did a TT version of the Gallardo with DSG. Would make the decision for those contemplating a Gallardo vs the 458 much easier, and should keep the secondary (used car) market at a higher price tag. Plus they already have the RS6 motor from their big brother in Audi which would make it much easier than spending money on R&D for a new motor. Just need to tweak it somewhat to give it more of the Italian sound.

 

That is what I would do if it were my company.

I believe that is exactly why cars are coming out with the performance numbers out of the box that they are these days. Simply because a guy who spends $170,000 on a Porsche Turbo S does not want to get beaten on badly by a stock Z0-H-6.

 

The lower tier fast cars, such as the z-0h-6, GTR, etc are what are pushing the envelope for the upper echelon super cars to need to be as fast as they are.

 

I also believe Lambo would sell much more volume on their entry level car (Gallardo Succesor) if they did a TT version of the Gallardo with DSG. Would make the decision for those contemplating a Gallardo vs the 458 much easier, and should keep the secondary (used car) market at a higher price tag. Plus they already have the RS6 motor from their big brother in Audi which would make it much easier than spending money on R&D for a new motor. Just need to tweak it somewhat to give it more of the Italian sound.

 

That is what I would do if it were my company.

 

Last thing lambo wants is the smaller cheaper model out performing the flagship right out the gate. As both models mature its usually bound to happen as was the case with the LP560 and the LP640, but you really arent going to have many lining up to buy a 400G aventador when the 250G gallardo replacement spanks it with god knows how many HP in a TT engine.....

Last thing lambo wants is the smaller cheaper model out performing the flagship right out the gate. As both models mature its usually bound to happen as was the case with the LP560 and the LP640, but you really arent going to have many lining up to buy a 400G aventador when the 250G gallardo replacement spanks it with god knows how many HP in a TT engine.....

 

Would not spank it. Would still lose to it, but with some mods to the G it would surely be faster. That is proven with the video nutcase posted a while back where his TTG loses to his Aventador.

 

Sell it for $250K and it will do fine. Should be 600 or so hp out of the box. They would sell them like hotcakes OVER MSRP.

 

Info on the C-6 rs6 Motor:

 

For the powertrain detail of the RS6, the internal combustion engine (parts code: 07L, identification code: BUH) was what Audi claimed the first all-aluminium alloy 5.0 litre (4,991 cc (304.6 cu in)) 90° V10 twin-turbocharged ("biturbo"), Fuel Stratified Injection (FSI), with a dry sump lubrication system. It has been speculated that an even more powerful version of this engine may go into the 2012 Audi S8, tuned to over 600 horsepower.[19] This engine is related to the naturally aspirated V10 found in the Audi R8, Audi S6, Audi S8, and Lamborghini Gallardo, however the RS6's engine has around 400 unique parts. [17][20]

 

The 5.0L V10 engine has four valves per cylinder, with twin chain-driven double overhead camshafts (2xDOHC), and variable valve timing[21] for both inlet and exhaust camshafts. Charged intake air is cooled with two side-mounted intercoolers (SMIC)s. Engine management is by way of two Bosch DI-Motronic[22] ME 9.1.2 engine control units, which act as "master" and "slave" concepts; two ECUs are required due to the high revs the engine can achieve. It also uses mapped direct ignition system with ten individual direct-acting spark coils, an electronic drive by wire throttle (Bosch "E-Gas"),[23] cylinder-selective knock control, and cylinder bank adaptive lambda control, utilising eight lambda sensors.

 

A total of seven radiators, and four electric cooling fans are needed to cool the engine, and related components under the aluminium bonnet of the RS6.

 

Drive output passes through a modified ZF 6HP26A six-speed tiptronic automatic transmission (parts code: 09E, identification code: KZQ or KZH) (gear ratios - 1st: 4.171, 2nd: 2.340, 3rd: 1.521, 4th: 1.143, 5th: 0.867, 6th: 0.691), with shortened shift times, with "Dynamic Shift Programme" (DSP) and "Sport" mode. It has paddle-shifts mounted behind the flat-bottomed steering wheel, similar in design to the Audi B7 RS4. The gearbox is set by default, in conventional automatic mode, to delay up-changes during acceleration, and change down earlier to maximise engine braking. Downchanges in all modes of operation include the Powertrain Control Module electronic control unit (ECU) "blipping" the Bosch "E-Gas" drive by wire throttle, for smoother shift changes. The hydraulic torque converter includes a lock-up function in all forward gears, and is able to completely disconnect when the vehicle is stationary, thus saving fuel.

 

Like all Audi "RS" models, the RS6 is fitted with Audi's 'trademark' quattro permanent four-wheel drive as standard; with this version of the RS6 using the latest asymmetric dynamic 40:60 front-to-rear default torque distribution from the Torsen T-3 'automatic torque biasing' (ATB) centre differential. This latest incarnation of the Torsen quattro, first seen in the B7 RS4, can automatically dynamically apportion up to a maximum 100% torque to the rear axle, or up to 80% to the front, dependent on traction conditions.

 

The front and rear axle final drives are conventional "open" differentials (ratio 3.317), and use the Audi "Electronic Differential Lock" (EDL). EDL is a part, or "function" of the Bosch ESP 8.0 Electronic Stability Programme,[5] which also includes "Anti-Slip Regulation" (ASR) traction control system. EDL does not 'lock' the differential in a traditional sense, but uses electronics to monitor individual roadwheel speeds across an axle, and merely applies the brake to just one wheel on that axle which is sensed to have lost traction (by rotating faster than the opposite wheel, beyond normal accepted deviations). This braked wheel has the effect of transferring the torque across the axle to the wheel which is deemed to still have traction.

Well..... That went well, I think....

 

 

(In other words, be happy Ive gone blind.)

Pages and pages of useless bickering. I will most likely get punished for saying this, but I would think the Mods here would clean this thread up and get rid of the useless crap talking back and forth instead of just adding to the disputes by publicly scolding posters. My post count is low here because I can only handle so much of the BS that is spread throughout this forum. There are some quality members and quality information here, but there is so much other crap going on, it makes this place super hard to follow. I will go back under my rock now.

Pages and pages of useless bickering. I will most likely get punished for saying this

 

You're right.

 

Edit: Only 72 hours. Everyone else - Cap just stated to get thread back on track.

You're right.

 

Lol.

 

Mike, maybe I missed it, but I didn't see Nutcase's TT LP560 "losing" to his Aventador, which would be a pretty amazing result if both cars were running right. I saw the Aventador hanging in there before being pulled a little, and I think he said the LP's clutch was slipping as well. But maybe I saw a different clip than you did. The Aventador is impressive for sure though.

Lol.

 

Mike, maybe I missed it, but I didn't see Nutcase's TT LP560 "losing" to his Aventador, which would be a pretty amazing result if both cars were running right. I saw the Aventador hanging in there before being pulled a little, and I think he said the LP's clutch was slipping as well. But maybe I saw a different clip than you did. The Aventador is impressive for sure though.

 

Ronnie,

 

Bolt on GTT lost through the first 3 1/2-4 gears or so. Seemed that the GTT pulled it on the big end.

 

SO it did not "lose," but surprisingly enough it was much closer than it should have been given power/weight vs. power/weight comparison, and much closer than anyone expected.