D.Wiggs LP2000-2 SV TT

so you got an exemption?

 

It's cool, my GT doesn't require one.

 

Yeah. I know the GT is awesome for that!

Absolutely awesome engineering effort fella

 

The immense effort in those plenums alone wasn't lost on me, nor the other billet parts that I can see, such as the clamps on those solid pipes down each side of the engine bay. The rods look like some of the most beautiful things I have ever seen, great I'm sure for 9000 rpm. I can't wait to see it started, but I guess not nearly as much as you can ....

 

Best of luck. Do keep posting progress. Ignore, as I'm sure you already do, the miseries and unfounded critics.

I'm not sure if you can just calculate power like that based on components that you use on the car. I think you will see some inefficiencies start to add up, but nevertheless. Very interesting project. I wouldn't call it the most advanced turbo system ever on an automobile, but if it makes the power, then there's nothing to complain about. Then you have to worry about putting it to the ground

 

I'm sure you won't lose heart, it's just the way you introduced the project has been interesting to say the least. Keep up the work and continue to refine the design.

I think I'm more interested in the deuce, and a half mods haha!

good luck with the whole build. i hope you reach you goals, in a reliable way, otherwise i do not see the point.

 

why did u sacrifice an SV, instead of going for a LP640 ?! blasphemy.

 

atleast makes standard SVs even more rare

I'm not sure if you can just calculate power like that based on components that you use on the car. I think you will see some inefficiencies start to add up, but nevertheless. Very interesting project. I wouldn't call it the most advanced turbo system ever on an automobile, but if it makes the power, then there's nothing to complain about. Then you have to worry about putting it to the ground

 

I'm sure you won't lose heart, it's just the way you introduced the project has been interesting to say the least. Keep up the work and continue to refine the design.

You can to within a percent or two. Either way, we'll know soon enough!

 

good luck with the whole build. i hope you reach you goals, in a reliable way, otherwise i do not see the point.

 

why did u sacrifice an SV, instead of going for a LP640 ?! blasphemy.

 

atleast makes standard SVs even more rare

We did an SV because that was the 'pinnacle' of Murcis. It was supposed to be the best for it was the final variant. We wanted to show just how much farther that platform could be taken. And we especially did since so many people mistakenly put low limits on the car.

I commend you on your efforts. Best of luck. I couldn't help but notice this looked odd in your engine bay.

 

I commend you on your efforts. Best of luck. I couldn't help but notice this looked odd in your engine bay.

 

I would have appreciated a NWS warning...

I commend you on your efforts. Best of luck. I couldn't help but notice this looked odd in your engine bay.

Upside down flux capacitor.

“Yellow speakers”!?!? Really? How does one NOT know about Focal, literally the world’s best car speaker. That is their signature and ONLY color. You gotta love beryllium cones!

 

Not that it matters, but those aren't Beryllium. Those aren't even Focal Utopias.

 

The speakers in those pictures are Focal K2's with Titanium cones.

 

The Utopia Be's have gray centers. Not yellow.

 

I know because I had the Utopia No 7's installed in my Murcie, and I have K2's in every other vehicle that I own.

 

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-EvrGYUb3jv7/p...ia-Be-No-7.html

 

 

Not that it matters, but those aren't Beryllium. Those aren't even Focal Utopias.

 

The speakers in those pictures are Focal K2's with Titanium cones.

 

The Utopia Be's have gray centers. Not yellow.

 

I know because I had the Utopia No 7's installed in my Murcie, and I have K2's in every other vehicle that I own.

 

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-EvrGYUb3jv7/p...ia-Be-No-7.html

 

I would go K2 over Beryllium, regardless of money. I'd even go Polyglass V30 over K2, although it's pretty close.

 

Agree there was a lot of misinformation in Wiggs' post regarding Focal, ironic since they make woofers with yellow, grey, black cones, phase plugs, dust caps, numerous cone materials, etc. A lot of variance in their product line.

 

As far as the the rage behind Utopia beryllium, it's a bit too bright a tweeter. The way those component sets are voiced there's lots of midrange suck out as well. It's a sound that appeals very much to car audio newbs since there's a lot of boom & sizzle....what appears to be "a lot of detail", but really isn't. It's already a bit harsh in an open room as is, and only gets worse in a car.

 

If you're a tried and true home audio guy you'll be disappointed.

I would go K2 over Beryllium, regardless of money. I'd even go Polyglass V30 over K2, although it's pretty close.

 

Agree there was a lot of misinformation in Wiggs' post regarding Focal, ironic since they make woofers with yellow, grey, black cones, phase plugs, dust caps, numerous cone materials, etc. A lot of variance in their product line.

 

As far as the the rage behind Utopia beryllium, it's a bit too bright a tweeter. The way those component sets are voiced there's lots of midrange suck out as well. It's a sound that appeals very much to car audio newbs since there's a lot of boom & sizzle....what appears to be "a lot of detail", but really isn't. It's already a bit harsh in an open room as is, and only gets worse in a car.

 

If you're a tried and true home audio guy you'll be disappointed.

 

Agree. I was disappointed in the Utopia's, mostly from a cost perspective.

 

The K2 rocks. The Utopia's are nice, but not at the price point.

 

I will say that the crossover that comes with the Utopias is fantastic, though. The amount of customization is ridiculous.

 

I spent 4 hours tweaking it to my liking, and probably could have spent another 4 easily.

 

Agree. I was disappointed in the Utopia's, mostly from a cost perspective.

 

The K2 rocks. The Utopia's are nice, but not at the price point.

 

I will say that the crossover that comes with the Utopias is fantastic, though. The amount of customization is ridiculous.

 

I spent 4 hours tweaking it to my liking, and probably could have spent another 4 easily.

Those are the K2s and the K2s have Beryllium Tweeters and Titanium cones on the woofers.

 

Didn't do the Utopia's due to weight.

You can to within a percent or two. Either way, we'll know soon enough!

We would LOVE to see those calculations!

Those are the K2s and the K2s have Beryllium Tweeters and Titanium cones on the woofers.

 

Didn't do the Utopia's due to weight.

 

With 2000 HP, surely you could spare a few pounds?

We would LOVE to see those calculations!

 

Would also like to know the Phd, PE who is doing them as well.

We would LOVE to see those calculations!

Would also like to know the Phd, PE who is doing them as well.

It's all in software programs. A one to two percent margin of error is pushing it, but it really all depends on how you input the information and interpret it. NASA doesn't play around though, lol.

 

Either way, with a turbo application, they're are MANY variables and just because the numbers say you can do it, it doesn't mean you'll actually get there.

 

Hopefully, he can share more information on the engine, I'm really interested in seeing all of the engineering that went into it.

Would also like to know the Phd, PE who is doing them as well.

 

 

Either way, with a turbo application, they're are MANY variables and just because the numbers say you can do it, it doesn't mean you'll actually get there.

 

Then there are some things that aren't variable at all. Like the amount of power you can make with a fixed limit of oxygen. This is something that is irrelevant to motor displacement, cylinders, etc. If you can push 100 lb/min of air through a lawnmower, and get an optimal burn, that little SOB will lay down near 1k hp. At a point things like backpressure to drive the turbo fight you, as does the requirement for huge boost, etc.

 

The main issue I see is that those GTX4294R Turbos max out just under 100 lb/min airflow each, and way outside their efficiency range. That fact alone puts a brick wall up that says flat out, 110%, this motor will never make 2400 crank hp. It's just physically not possible, the turbos can't feed it.

 

I would really like to see this thing step up to at least a GTX4508R. Your back pressure will be a shit ton lower, discharge temps down, and you'll generally be in a more efficient range of the map. And the drivability between this mid frame and the 42 won't be noticeable. This isn't a 47-88 on a 3.4L Supra we're dealing with, it's got some torque to get around just fine. Though a pair of GT47's would have enough juice to push it well past 2400 without straining everything.

 

I know just personally, I sure wouldn't be listing an FSAE engineer as my head designer. Thats actually more worrying than anything if you have ever been around FSAE, even if he came out of Cornell.

 

I'm not trying to be a hater or ball breaker here, but a lot of this just doesn't add up and I'd hate to see Wiggs spend so much time and money when I can see clear as day certain aspects just won't work. I've been through these trials and tribulations, played with monster T6 80+mm turbos, and built cars that laid down 1400+ to the tires with ease. You aren't class limited, there is no need to squeak every last HP out of a given turbo vs just sizing one that will do the job properly.

One factor people fail to remember is the power of the motor prior to turbo. 100lb/min on a 300hp motor can not be equated to 100lb/min on a 800-900hp car. That is a huge factor in whether or not those turbos will make the power he wants.

 

Best

Agree with Emanon. Drivability is biggest concern.

One factor people fail to remember is the power of the motor prior to turbo. 100lb/min on a 300hp motor can not be equated to 100lb/min on a 800-900hp car. That is a huge factor in whether or not those turbos will make the power he wants.

 

Best

 

Nope, it isn't additional airflow to what the motor already consumes, its a finite limit in total volume. If you dump 5 gallons of water in one bucket or 10, the volume does not change.

 

 

 

It's all in software programs.

 

 

lol. Not knocking you. I interned at Mathworks in college. I almost fell out of my chair reading this. Anyone who has ever used it and gotten ridiculous results will share the humor.

lol. Not knocking you. I interned at Mathworks in college. I almost fell out of my chair reading this. Anyone who has ever used it and gotten ridiculous results will share the humor.

I'm not on par with emanon or Fellipe's mechanical and fluid knowledge, but being a control systems engineer familiar with Matlab and such, I definetely giggled.

I'm not on par with emanon or Fellipe's mechanical and fluid knowledge, but being a control systems engineer familiar with Matlab and such, I definetely giggled.

 

Finally, someone who might get a kick out of the matlab Shower easter egg.

Then there are some things that aren't variable at all. Like the amount of power you can make with a fixed limit of oxygen. This is something that is irrelevant to motor displacement, cylinders, etc. If you can push 100 lb/min of air through a lawnmower, and get an optimal burn, that little SOB will lay down near 1k hp. At a point things like backpressure to drive the turbo fight you, as does the requirement for huge boost, etc.

 

The main issue I see is that those GTX4294R Turbos max out just under 100 lb/min airflow each, and way outside their efficiency range. That fact alone puts a brick wall up that says flat out, 110%, this motor will never make 2400 crank hp. It's just physically not possible, the turbos can't feed it.

 

I would really like to see this thing step up to at least a GTX4508R. Your back pressure will be a shit ton lower, discharge temps down, and you'll generally be in a more efficient range of the map. And the drivability between this mid frame and the 42 won't be noticeable. This isn't a 47-88 on a 3.4L Supra we're dealing with, it's got some torque to get around just fine. Though a pair of GT47's would have enough juice to push it well past 2400 without straining everything.

 

I know just personally, I sure wouldn't be listing an FSAE engineer as my head designer. Thats actually more worrying than anything if you have ever been around FSAE, even if he came out of Cornell.

 

I'm not trying to be a hater or ball breaker here, but a lot of this just doesn't add up and I'd hate to see Wiggs spend so much time and money when I can see clear as day certain aspects just won't work. I've been through these trials and tribulations, played with monster T6 80+mm turbos, and built cars that laid down 1400+ to the tires with ease. You aren't class limited, there is no need to squeak every last HP out of a given turbo vs just sizing one that will do the job properly.

Back pressure will definitely be a major factor.

 

I would imagine that the engineers looked at maps and did the calculations or else they'll be in for the hell of a ride.

 

I don't know enough about how the engine was built so I can't say what it will do or it won't do. Based on what I know and the people that I deal with on a daily basis, 2400 out of 6.5L V12 is definitely possible, whether or not it'll work better in this particular configuration with a pair of 42s or 45s, that's another story. Maybe David can fill us in on more details about the engine...

One factor people fail to remember is the power of the motor prior to turbo. 100lb/min on a 300hp motor can not be equated to 100lb/min on a 800-900hp car. That is a huge factor in whether or not those turbos will make the power he wants.

 

Best

The actual horsepower number is irrelevant, the volumetric efficiency is what makes the difference. If you slap a turbo on an engine with a VE of 110 versus one with a VE of 90, the engine with the higher VE will make more power.

lol. Not knocking you. I interned at Mathworks in college. I almost fell out of my chair reading this. Anyone who has ever used it and gotten ridiculous results will share the humor.

Do you have any direct experience with engine analyzer software?