50 dead is mass shooting at florida gay club

So sad.

 

Why can't 10-20 big countries all unofficially add as many navy seals/killers possible to a big group and go hunt and slit the throughts of every terrorist there is in the world. If the core group of shit face terrorists doesn't exist anymore, these little fcuk bags killing people on US soil won't exist anymore. The world is a big place, but 200000 seals/killers should easily out number the shit face terrorists of the world and sweeper teams should be on the job indefinitely. I wonder if something like this is currently in place.

this is infuriating. I know the area where this happened. My old neck of the woods. I find it crazy that when this happened in France it was instantly terrorism...now that it happened here its instantly about gun control. These politicians are out of their fcuking minds.

 

This stuff is happening more frequently with more devastation.

We can't stop it, and it won't end.

I feel things are going to come to a head sooner versus later.

Anyone know about Florida gun laws? This murdering went on for a long time.

 

I wonder if someone had a ccw in the club the outcome could have been different somewhat.

No open carry. Concealed is okay unless you're in an establishment that serves alcohol (bar or club). Restaurants okay.

No open carry. Concealed is okay unless you're in an establishment that serves alcohol (bar or club). Restaurants okay.

correct.

I'm sure I missed something, but did anyone say how this guy got in with a AR? its pretty tough to conceal that.

So this was a gun free zone again : (

So this was a gun free zone again : (

 

You think it is responsible to bring a gun into a bar??

correct.

I'm sure I missed something, but did anyone say how this guy got in with a AR? its pretty tough to conceal that.

 

Yep. And he was on an FBI watch list. I guess that doesn't mean anything though because you can still run for POTUS.

 

 

So this was a gun free zone again : (

 

That is correct. Also, for anyone who doesn't want to take a chance getting their head blown off, in The Supreme Court vs DeBerry, The Supreme Court ruled that the appearance of someone concealing a gun on their person is not reasonable grounds for detention or arrest or search of person. I.E. If you go to a bar and you're concealed carrying a gun, (against your state's jurisdiction), unless you're actively committing a crime, there SHOULD not be a reason that you are detained and searched. If one person would have been carrying, many lives could have been saved. And don't forget, this guy was there long enough that a SWAT team had time to fully mobilize and get in a shootout.

I'm sure I missed something, but did anyone say how this guy got in with a AR? its pretty tough to conceal that.

 

From what understood from reading/watching news of the attack, there was no intent to conceal anything.

 

He arrived around 2 AM, which should be near last call if I'm not mistaken. More or less there would be people leaving than coming in at all. From the aerial pictures and video it appears he parked his van behind a fence as to separate view of the front door (security) and his van giving cover to get the weapons/ammo out. He apparently engaged the security officer at the club entrance in which gunfire was exchanged or at least he shot giving little time, if any, for the security officer to react. The security officer fled after the initial exchange to call police. That allowed the terrorist scumbag to enter the club with his weapons and open fire. There was no longer anyone/anything to stop him from entering.

The hardest part about a lot of this (as Wheels actually pointed out) is that while someone is on a watch list, there's not much that can be done until they get very close (but in most cases) actually do things. There's a very fine line and if we start arresting people for what "they might do" that's how you wind up with secret police states disappearing people all the time. Let's not let one extreme push us to another.

 

I do hate how this got spun (like many of us knew it would) into a gun control issue without addressing the real issue (of mental health). What makes a guy go into a place to kill people? Had he ran his car into the place or made an explosive device, no one would have blamed those tools and would have called it for what it was. But he uses a gun and suddenly it's the gun's fault?

 

I think we should utilize more veterans as armed guards at schools ad public places. they have the training, many need the work, and I think it provides a better solution that trying to make every place a "gun-free zone." That idea assumes that bad people will play by the rules (which they won't) and just makes tragic events like this much more likely to happen.

 

And if the President is so adamant about a getting rid of guns, then he can lead by example and have his secret service security detail ditch all of their guns and lead by example. Yeah, I didn't think so.

So this was a gun free zone again : (

Drunk people in crowded nightclubs should definitely be able to carry guns.

Drunk people in crowded nightclubs should definitely be able to carry guns.

 

If that's your logic, then I'm glad our laws stopped the guy from shooting up the night club. People are going to do what they want in the end.

Horrible Attack.

I think reasons are somewhere entirely elsewhere than pro / con guns argumenting.

People that have lost their mental healt and individuals that radical islam has brainwashed into this.

How we deal with these before hand is a big question mark.

 

How we deal with these before hand is a big question mark.

 

:iamwithstupid:

If that's your logic, then I'm glad our laws stopped the guy from shooting up the night club. People are going to do what they want in the end.

You cannot be serious. This is serious double-face-palm material. These people wont be able to talk or walk straight, should certainly not be behind the wheel of a car, and should sure as hell not be able to pack assault rifles, or any gun for that matter, for a night of drunkenness.

 

Edit: Obviously guns aren't the only issue here. Everyone wants to take sides and point the finger an one singular issue; some point it at guns, others at Islam, others at mental health. You could ban guns, you will still have these attacks. You can deport all Muslims and you would still have these attacks. You can lock up anyone with even a slight bit of mental health issues and you would still have these attacks. The real cause behind this is obviously far more complicated than any singular issue and unfortunately it seems the US at this point is too divided to be able to have a proper conversation to try to find the underlying cause and address it.

Outrageous act that one guy can inflict so much terror, death and suffering. One guy.

This is equally as outrageous in my city for 2016- year to date.

1425 shot. 254 shot and killed.

It is the damn Wild West all over again and I'm not a fan.

I'm not sure we can call it a gun free zone..they had armed security that traded shots with him. The difference is that the armed security guard wasn't willing to die (not saying he should have been). The murderer was committed and did not off himself at the first sign of resistance, like many of those crazed shooters do. I don't think our system is set up to deal with someone like him effectively.

You cannot be serious. This is serious double-face-palm material. These people wont be able to talk or walk straight, should certainly not be behind the wheel of a car, and should sure as hell not be able to pack assault rifles, or any gun for that matter, for a night of drunkenness.

 

Edit: Obviously guns aren't the only issue here. Everyone wants to take sides and point the finger an one singular issue; some point it at guns, others at Islam, others at mental health. You could ban guns, you will still have these attacks. You can deport all Muslims and you would still have these attacks. You can lock up anyone with even a slight bit of mental health issues and you would still have these attacks. The real cause behind this is obviously far more complicated than any singular issue and unfortunately it seems the US at this point is too divided to be able to have a proper conversation to try to find the underlying cause and address it.

 

 

 

I get what you were saying, but the point I was trying to make was that people keep making more and more laws expecting things to change. How many laws did the shooter break? More laws aren't going to solve anything, and while I'm not advocating for drunk people carrying guns, not everyone who goes to a club does so to get wasted. People aren't supposed to drink and drive but they do. There are constantly shootings in clubs, in fact one of my good friends stopped a fight in a club in Seattle and was shot to death by a gang member. The perpetrator escaped and was never found.

 

Use Hawaii for example. We have the strictest laws in the nation here. I like to go out every now and then for a few drinks or just to hang out with friends. I'm not allowed to conceal carry here (regardless of at a bar or in general), yet there are people getting robbed at gunpoint and at knifepoint every week here. I am a target because I'm a white male, but I'm not allowed to defend myself. I've had friends get attacked by 10 or 15 people and get the shit beat out of them and they weren't able to do a thing. Are more laws going to help me, because people are getting guns from overseas easier than the time it takes me to get one legally that I can never take out of my home.

Edit: Obviously guns aren't the only issue here. Everyone wants to take sides and point the finger an one singular issue; some point it at guns, others at Islam, others at mental health. You could ban guns, you will still have these attacks. You can deport all Muslims and you would still have these attacks. You can lock up anyone with even a slight bit of mental health issues and you would still have these attacks. The real cause behind this is obviously far more complicated than any singular issue and unfortunately it seems the US at this point is too divided to be able to have a proper conversation to try to find the underlying cause and address it.

 

In the end, there's an issue with humans that's been around since the beginning of time and no law will change that.

It is a horrible and tragic event but as someone who can deliver a distasteful joke I find the Islamic/anti/pro gun lobbies bandwagon to be woefully pathetic especially so when not all of the victims names have been released.

 

Banging your beliefs drum loudly whilst others mourn says a lot more about you and your beliefs than the beliefs of the hideous fuckwits behind these actions.

 

Taking a step back for a moment.

As someone on the outside America seems to be facing this eternal struggle, ban this, ban that... and there is this constant theme of just one simple action will resolve the problem.

Kill Sadam Hussein, Iraq will be freed. Kill Osama we beat terror, ban guns will stop these massacres, ban Islamist entry will stop these sort of attacks.

But the reality that is not being sold is banning guns will not stop this type of event happening. Banning Islam will not stop the problem. The problem is not binary, there are many facets at play and causation to an event is not one single action.

 

Killing Colonel Sanders does not stop people eating fried chicken.

One thing that has gone without any discussion is the 3 hours it took to enter the club to take out the shooter. How many wounded could have been saved by entering earlier? I can say with certainty that not everyone shot died instantly, so countless lives could have been saved by engaging the shooter and getting paramedics to the wounded far earlier than 3 hours. That is a horror I can't imagine, you are wounded and bleeding out, counting every second hoping for help to come, and for 3 hours it sits outside talking about what to do.

 

A cop I know in Colorado Springs said they are trained to engage an active shooter immediately upon arriving on scene, they don't wait for SWAT to arrive because of the likelihood the death tool rises with every moment the shooter has without interference.

It is a horrible and tragic event but as someone who can deliver a distasteful joke I find the Islamic/anti/pro gun lobbies bandwagon to be woefully pathetic especially so when not all of the victims names have been released.

 

Banging your beliefs drum loudly whilst others mourn says a lot more about you and your beliefs than the beliefs of the hideous fuckwits behind these actions.

 

Taking a step back for a moment.

As someone on the outside America seems to be facing this eternal struggle, ban this, ban that... and there is this constant theme of just one simple action will resolve the problem.

Kill Sadam Hussein, Iraq will be freed. Kill Osama we beat terror, ban guns will stop these massacres, ban Islamist entry will stop these sort of attacks.

But the reality that is not being sold is banning guns will not stop this type of event happening. Banning Islam will not stop the problem. The problem is not binary, there are many facets at play and causation to an event is not one single action.

 

Killing Colonel Sanders does not stop people eating fried chicken.

 

So what is the solution in your opinion? I am curious to see what you think.

 

Situation is a lot more complex than "kill Sadam and Iraq will be freed", I bet if yourself or your own family was persecuted, rapped, murdered, etc. you'd want someone to step in and take the POS out, you would desperately scream, pray, beg for help, the issues are a lot more complex and it's a case of you are damned if you do or you damned if you don't, ultimately you will be viewed as the bad guy by someone.

From what understood from reading/watching news of the attack, there was no intent to conceal anything.

 

He arrived around 2 AM, which should be near last call if I'm not mistaken. More or less there would be people leaving than coming in at all. From the aerial pictures and video it appears he parked his van behind a fence as to separate view of the front door (security) and his van giving cover to get the weapons/ammo out. He apparently engaged the security officer at the club entrance in which gunfire was exchanged or at least he shot giving little time, if any, for the security officer to react. The security officer fled after the initial exchange to call police. That allowed the terrorist scumbag to enter the club with his weapons and open fire. There was no longer anyone/anything to stop him from entering.

unreal, this will sure change things moving forward.

 

So what is the solution in your opinion? I am curious to see what you think.

 

Situation is a lot more complex than "kill Sadam and Iraq will be freed", I bet if yourself or your own family was persecuted, rapped, murdered, etc. you'd want someone to step in and take the POS out, you would desperately scream, pray, beg for help, the issues are a lot more complex and it's a case of you are damned if you do or you damned if you don't, ultimately you will be viewed as the bad guy by someone.

I am getting the impression there is a miscommunication here.

 

I am saying the situation is a lot more complicated, but it is sold to the general public as a simple formula.