United States vs. The World: Education

Summary: We spend the most and get nearly the worst test results.

 

Thank god for Mexico and Brazil keeping us out of DEAD LAST. :lol2:

 

we are using a 19th century education system to teach in the 21st century. we put more money then any other country into education, but we pay our teachers crap.

There is no way to address the real issues without being politically incorrect.

As a math tutor who is seeing kids needing calculators to do stuff like 72/8, I know that even in canada shit is fucked up.

There is no way to address the real issues without being politically incorrect.

Im with you there.

 

My guess is the best countries have family units that still teach at home instead of relying on woefully inadequate "teachers" that shove students through like meat in a processor. bonus points for what movie that analogy is from.

"Leave no child behind" was the death knell for education. If they're too dumb, leave 'em behind and get them into trade schools. This bullshit that everybody graduates is making a generation of idiots.

I call BS, whats the last great thing that came from Finland! How could they have 100% literacy rate as well? They must have some idiots that live there.

There is no way to address the real issues without being politically incorrect.

 

Without being politcally incorrect and maybe sounding a little racist there is a common factors of a certain group of people that seem to drive certain school districts test scores down across the US.

 

 

"Leave no child behind" was the death knell for education. If they're too dumb, leave 'em behind and get them into trade schools. This bullshit that everybody graduates is making a generation of idiots.

 

As a tradesman I'm not too sure if I'm offended by that, but I guess it's because I'm too dumb

Without being politcally incorrect and maybe sounding a little racist there is a common factors of a certain group of people that seem to drive certain school districts test scores down across the US.

If by "group" you mean people who fall into the low socio-economic class, regardless of race - I would be inclined to agree.

LOL at Australia's professional students, they stay in school forever.

 

I guess there is nothing like shoveling dirt while holding a university degree.

I was a socio-economic fluke. Came up very poor, mother worked three full time jobs to keep us in a 2BR trailer. Worked hard. Busted my ass. Still work much harder than I should, and not smart enough. Won't take OPM or govt $ directly in any form. But what I see are lazy, fat people who have their hand out and feel entitled to things. No, you cannot talk about the education problem in this country and be politically correct. It does not take a genius to see where the real problems are- if you don't see it you are lying to yourself. It's parents who demand to segregate their child's educational failures from their peers, and blame teachers for their shortcomings.

I was a socio-economic fluke. Came up very poor, mother worked three full time jobs to keep us in a 2BR trailer. Worked hard. Busted my ass. Still work much harder than I should, and not smart enough. Won't take OPM or govt $ directly in any form. But what I see are lazy, fat people who have their hand out and feel entitled to things. No, you cannot talk about the education problem in this country and be politically correct. It does not take a genius to see where the real problems are- if you don't see it you are lying to yourself. It's parents who demand to segregate their child's educational failures from their peers, and blame teachers for their shortcomings.

 

 

I don't know what it is or what year no kid left behind started, but I was just talking to someone who came from Germany and we both had a good laugh over how easy math was in the US. We both studied calculus by the age 13, to think that American kids learn algebra at 15 is beyond insane. College algebra is not a subject, it is where stupid kids go to waste time. I understand not everyone is a math savant, but somehow most kids in my foreign math class were passing just fine?

I call BS, whats the last great thing that came from Finland! How could they have 100% literacy rate as well? They must have some idiots that live there.

 

Oy Vey ha ha ha ha ha ha

 

 

Well Canada is doing well at least

I don't know what it is or what year no kid left behind started, but I was just talking to someone who came from Germany and we both had a good laugh over how easy math was in the US. We both studied calculus by the age 13, to think that American kids learn algebra at 15 is beyond insane. College algebra is not a subject, it is where stupid kids go to waste time. I understand not everyone is a math savant, but somehow most kids in my foreign math class were passing just fine?

 

It's a compounding problem. No student left behind being number one, but then you have sub par pay for teachers, which adds to the problem of sub par teachers, leading to kids not getting proper education because the teachers themselves don't really know the subjects, leading to poor moral among the sub par teaching because the kids don't care, etc........then it gets to the end of the school year where the kids have learned nothing, and you have parents that have had no involvement because they really don't care saying "You can't fail them, that would hurt their self esteem!!"

 

Sorry, but being an illiterate, unemployed, gov't cheese taking drain on society would be worse for self esteem IMO, but then again, by the time they get to that point, they have a sense of entitlement because they weren't "Left Behind" at some point in their childhood. There is no motivation for kids to do anything anymore. It definitely falls harder on the areas of lower socio-economic areas where a lot of the people there already have that "Gov't owes me !" attitude that then hits the kids early on.

My guess is the best countries have family units that still teach at home instead of relying on woefully inadequate "teachers" that shove students through like meat in a processor. bonus points for what movie that analogy is from.

 

 

The Wall.

It all falls back on two words = TEACHERS UNION !!!

If they're too dumb, leave 'em behind and get them into trade schools.

 

 

As a tradesman I'm not too sure if I'm offended by that, but I guess it's because I'm too dumb

 

 

Me too.

 

 

It's parents who demand to segregate their child's educational failures from their peers, and blame teachers for their shortcomings.

 

I think there are several factors that come into play.

 

1-Society has changed in the US. The vasy majority of households are now dual income, and both parents work 40+ hours in many cases. The last thing they want to do after working hard for 8-10 hours is come home and babysit their kids and help them do homework. So if there is not structure, importance, and oversight from the parents the kids start to care less about what they learn.

 

2-There are many teachers who love their jobs, and it brings them great pleasure to teach and see their childrens minds develop throughout the school year. There are some teachers who could care less about any of that, and are low on the socio-economic totem pole. They are the teachers unions biggest spokespeople, and should all be fired.

 

3-The testing system in the US is screwed up (it varies state by state). We teach our children how to take a test as opposed to teaching them how to read something, digest it, and interpret a solution from it.

 

 

Locally we've got a really serious issue with the school and budget. They quite literally laid off all teachers that taught electives but a handful. (my mother who is a school teacher being one of them)

 

The school of my home town now has:

 

- No shop class

- No computer class

- No art class

- The CCNA class they earned for high school? Gone

- Home Economics class? Who needs that. Cooking, essential skills, bah.

- Finance? Gone. Hey, managing money isn't THAT important is it?

- Drafting and graphic arts, hooooosed!

- Sports. Only partially funded by fundraisers through the community, school budget cut it. How long will it last? Who knows.

 

Last I heard the last elective they DO have is music class...

 

My mother attended one of the recent schoolboard meetings as a reporter (she now has a job working for the paper) and figured she'd attend. Apparently they were debating cutting 2 more jobs because they needed to save $30,000 in their yearly budget. Couldn't cut back elsewhere and figured they'd get rid of 2 more. She's doing a report on it, she said it is very interesting to see how it's panning out being on "the other side of the argument" - she was always worried about her job. They laid off most the teachers before Christmas in 2009 and MORE in 2010. Always before christmas (always a really classy time of year to do it).

 

Keep in mind my home town is a SMALL town. About 10,000 people. It is a largely agricultural town, as well as services. The other main thing for the town was the mills, almost none of which are running. So to cut out things like economics, computers, shop, finance.. I feel very badly for the kids who are going to school to literally "Just do the basics" with only 1 or 2 electives remaining.

 

Understanding math, reading, writing and the basics is most definitely important. Absolutely. However, electives are also a good thing to keep kids rounded and ready for things and teach them important skills as well. It hurt to see my home town hurt like that. It really does. Makes me wonder WHAT will happen to that generation of kids as far as jobs go.

 

If I didn't have any of the computer classes, especially the CCNA course I went through... there is just absolutely no way I'd be working with computers today and be so happy to have the job I have and be comfortable. Rewind 10 years, put me back in today's school and I'd probably be screwed.

PS, stop talking about this whole teachers don't get paid bullshit. Has anyone ever actually looked at their pension packages as well as their paid time off? This all even gets more ridiculous when you factor in the lack of accountability and bulletproof job security...

 

Teachers get paid for a lot more than you think...don't get fooled by just looking at the base salary number.

 

The union needs to be dissolved.

PS, stop talking about this whole teachers don't get paid bullshit. Has anyone ever actually looked at their pension packages as well as their paid time off? This all even gets more ridiculous when you factor in the lack of accountability and bulletproof job security...

 

Teachers get paid for a lot more than you think...don't get fooled by just looking at the base salary number.

 

The union needs to be dissolved.

 

Could not agree more.

 

And derek, all those elective you speak of, I never had any of those in my private education. Those were never even offered. I agree in the sentiment of leaving behind those that want to be left behind. If someone doesnt want to work for something, then fcuk'em thats their choice.

PS, stop talking about this whole teachers don't get paid bullshit. Has anyone ever actually looked at their pension packages as well as their paid time off? This all even gets more ridiculous when you factor in the lack of accountability and bulletproof job security...

 

Teachers get paid for a lot more than you think...don't get fooled by just looking at the base salary number.

 

The union needs to be dissolved.

 

 

 

My sister is a public school teacher and she makes 85k plus great benefits and works 9 1/2 months per year. Take a look at the thousands of NY city teachers that sit in a large room during school hours while getting full pay to not teach because they are not allowed to be with students. The unions protect them and they can't be fired. Without unions the bad teachers get weeded out, performance goes up and salaries go up to keep the good teachers and even better the public doesn't have to support dead beats that can't be fired.

PS, stop talking about this whole teachers don't get paid bullshit. Has anyone ever actually looked at their pension packages as well as their paid time off? This all even gets more ridiculous when you factor in the lack of accountability and bulletproof job security...

 

Teachers get paid for a lot more than you think...don't get fooled by just looking at the base salary number.

 

The union needs to be dissolved.

 

thank you vyce, teachers are far from under compensated

Adam Carolla sums it up perfectly here:

 

(Fast forward and start at about 1:15.)

 

Kids from various different types of familes/cultures, some that valued eduction and hard work and some that didn't, all attending the same damn school with the same damn teachers, ending up achieving wildly different things. Gee, what a concept! It ain't about how many dollars are shoveled into the damn school system (as evidenced by the fact that we spend more per student than any other country yet rank something like 397th in results).