New Lamborghini - LP700-4 - Discussion

I seem to be the only one on the board that has said anything not completely positive maybe it is just my love of the LP640 looks or people are afraid to speak there mind.

Going off of that last picture posted, I don't really care for it too much. I'd take a 670 over it.

I seem to be the only one on the board that has said anything not completely positive maybe it is just my love of the LP640 looks or people are afraid to speak there mind.

 

Lane I was at the same viewing as you and I felt the same way you did (I saw you there). I was surprised by the reactions of the New York and Florida crowd. Like you I felt that the new car was essentially a modernization of the of the Murci. I guess it's good for Lambo that there are people that are blown away.

 

I too remember thinking that styling element on the front of the hood that pointed back was strange.

Lane I was at the same viewing as you and I felt the same way you did (I saw you there). I was surprised by the reactions of the New York and Florida crowd. Like you I felt that the new car was essentially a modernization of the of the Murci. I guess it's good for Lambo that there are people that are blown away.

 

I too remember thinking that styling element on the front of the hood that pointed back was strange.

Everybody was so positive I thought it was me I kept my thoughts to myself since then just listening to everyone's opinion. There was a lot of unnecessary styling cues. that was just one of them.

Based on what my dealer told me I dropped a deposit on the car and hoped to get to one of the subsequent viewings... which didn't happen

 

As such, I have told him based on everything that I am hearing that I have my order on hold until I can either see the car in person and sit in it, or at least get more feedback, a PICTURE and an idea when the options are going to change so I don't end up wishing I had one of the later cars...

 

he told me it was much bigger inside than the LP640 but hearing this last report makes me REALLY want to wait...

Eh.... a month and a half and we'll all see it.

Lambo's R/D head said a couple weeks ago that their ISR choice "saved 40kg" (about 90 pounds).

 

And what they didn't say is that it also likely saved them $$$, which is likely a big piece of the true reason they went with old-tech.

 

Even if we take them at their word (weight-savings/feel-the-violence) it's still a debate over an extra 90 pounds versus buttery-smooth and ultra-fast dual-clutch action.

 

Which one is right? Everyone has their opinion but it really comes down to personal tastes and preferences.

I just spoke to someone who has actually driven the car. Granted he is a Lambo guy, he's of the old school, not to fond of the G, loves the Countach etc.

He said the LP700 is significantly faster than the LP670. So much in fact, it's hard to believe there's only a 30 HP increase of power.

 

As for the gearbox, the way he described it I doubt anyone will complain too much. Sure it's not a DSG, but it's damn good.

 

Hes only complaint about the car was that it has lost some of the "Lambo feeling".

everyone is entitled to a opinion, but mark my word when this car hits the streets 99.9% of the public will go crazy.

i love the murci (i owned one), love the 640, and really love the SV! but this car is on a whole different playing field!

IMO its like comparing the 430 to the new 458 x 100

i can only comment on looks but im sure performance will be equally impressive! i will own one (i might just have to wait 1 year after release, so i dont take the initial hit)

Based on what my dealer told me I dropped a deposit on the car and hoped to get to one of the subsequent viewings... which didn't happen

 

As such, I have told him based on everything that I am hearing that I have my order on hold until I can either see the car in person and sit in it, or at least get more feedback, a PICTURE and an idea when the options are going to change so I don't end up wishing I had one of the later cars...

 

he told me it was much bigger inside than the LP640 but hearing this last report makes me REALLY want to wait...

 

 

Ray, I sat in the car for some time. Doors down, door up, windows down etc to see how it felt. I didn't think it was any bigger than the 640. If anything it is more cramped with a very large center console.

 

This is one of the big disadvantages of sticking that transmission in front of the engine.

I am less worried about how good the car will look (I am sure it will look great) or how fast it is (I know it will be fast), and more worried about how much room there is in the cabin (specifically how I will fit), and how well the transmission does in city driving compared to a DSG. So I wont be one of the first people to have one, oh well.

Based on what my dealer told me I dropped a deposit on the car and hoped to get to one of the subsequent viewings... which didn't happen

 

As such, I have told him based on everything that I am hearing that I have my order on hold until I can either see the car in person and sit in it, or at least get more feedback, a PICTURE and an idea when the options are going to change so I don't end up wishing I had one of the later cars...

 

he told me it was much bigger inside than the LP640 but hearing this last report makes me REALLY want to wait...

As we have been discussing, dont worry I will completely convince you against buying this car!

Sitting in the car, I am not sure if the interior is bigger as there is just so much of that center console that takes up the interior. But if they said its roomier, I guess its roomier... just by how much...and where... perhaps leg room? I personally think that the inteior has become more cocoon like similar to the countach, but with more leg room. In reality though I think that center console could have been trimmed down as the egear is hidden behind it as the console is very high up. Coupled with thick roof pillars, thickly padded seats, and the console, the interior looks like its smaller... If they had just carbon trim in later variants, I would imagine that they could trim that down a bit....

I just spoke to someone who has actually driven the car. Granted he is a Lambo guy, he's of the old school, not to fond of the G, loves the Countach etc.

He said the LP700 is significantly faster than the LP670. So much in fact, it's hard to believe there's only a 30 HP increase of power.

 

As for the gearbox, the way he described it I doubt anyone will complain too much. Sure it's not a DSG, but it's damn good.

 

Hes only complaint about the car was that it has lost some of the "Lambo feeling".

 

Im curious if there will be such an outcry if the Enzo-successor doesnt feature a DSG.

If VW group had really wanted to have a DSG in the LP700 they would've just saved the development cost of the ISR and dropped the DSG from the Veyron into the car. I, for one, prefer the feel of the shifts of the egear transmission, just like I prefer the BMW SMG III feel to the DCT transmission. If you want a "buttery smooth" shifting car, I would get the Ferrari or Lexus LFA.

If VW group had really wanted to have a DSG in the LP700 they would've just saved the development cost of the ISR and dropped the DSG from the Veyron into the car. I, for one, prefer the feel of the shifts of the egear transmission, just like I prefer the BMW SMG III feel to the DCT transmission. If you want a "buttery smooth" shifting car, I would get the Ferrari or Lexus LFA.

 

The Veyron's transmission costs more than your CTS just to manufacture, it's not an option for a car at the LP700's price point (yes they sweat part costs even below $100, let alone $50k-100k for just a gearbox).

 

Money and weight were the likely dominant factors for their decision, with "feel" coming a very very verrrrrrrrrry distant third.

 

I could go either way. On the track the chassis-disrupting violent e-gear nonsense is empty-your-bowels scary mid-turn when downshifting. But it IS cool when you're alone in the car and playing badass and wanting a more emotional experience. I can see both sides of the argument.

 

Not sure which one I'd prefer if I had the oppurtunity to be honest, because the dual-clutch boxes in the 458 and P-cars are so so fast...and so so easy...

DCT here and no DCT there, it's too jerky, it's too smooth...

 

Do you guys think they will start offering 6 speed manuals after a couple years? Is it even possible?

The Veyron's transmission costs more than your CTS just to manufacture, it's not an option for a car at the LP700's price point (yes they sweat part costs even below $100, let alone $50k-100k for just a gearbox).

 

Money and weight were the likely dominant factors for their decision, with "feel" coming a very very verrrrrrrrrry distant third.

 

I could go either way. On the track the chassis-disrupting violent e-gear nonsense is empty-your-bowels scary mid-turn when downshifting. But it IS cool when you're alone in the car and playing badass and wanting a more emotional experience. I can see both sides of the argument.

 

Not sure which one I'd prefer if I had the oppurtunity to be honest, because the dual-clutch boxes in the 458 and P-cars are so so fast...and so so easy...

have there been lots of complaints with the Scuderia and GTO gearboxes? in terms of streetability and performance? they are much quicker than the egears and the ISR will be even quicker.

 

The Veyron's transmission costs more than your CTS just to manufacture, it's not an option for a car at the LP700's price point (yes they sweat part costs even below $100, let alone $50k-100k for just a gearbox).

 

 

 

Weight and Packaging were definitely a priority. And yes, when you are only putting that transmission in less than 300 cars over 7 years, it may be $50K-$100K. But in a couple of hundred cars per year, that cost comes down. Plus you would have to amortize some of the development cost of the new transmissions into the existing tranny's price also, which would also reduce the per unit cost. However, the size of the transmission probably would prohibit its use in the LP700 anyway. There are also the Audi DSG transmissions in house, though they would have to be heavily modified the handle the load of the V12. Again, I think they put a lot of thought into the ISR and from what the early feedback from the press sounds like, it appears the engineers were pretty successful in their application of this design. I just get a little tired of hearing what a big "issue" no DSG is in this car. The car looks great to me in person and the overall packaging is impressive. That's why I ordered one. I guess time will tell whether that was the right decision or not.

I still don't understand why everyone thinks that the reason they didn't put a DSG gearbox in it is money. Ferdinand isn't exactly hurting for money and he's proven that he does what he wants to do like picking up the Bugatti brand and taking a bath on the Veyron to show what a production car could do. We've all seen the Lambo and Audi development sharing with the R8 and Gallardos essentially sharing the same platform, so a great new DSG in a Lambo would most definitely find it's way into cars from both brands. If they really wanted to put a DSG gearbox in there it would be. Lets not overlook the fact that ISR is not EGear and is a completely new transmission that I think will be great. I feel like everyone would have a valid point if nothing changed on that front but it has. After seeing it I'm of the opinion that this car will be a massive success no matter what people are saying now. As soon as everyone sees this thing on the road and how it performs I think most will be believers. If your major concern about the car is the transmission not being Lexus smooth around town I suggest saving 300k and get yourself a Turbo S w/ PDK that is that smooth or remember that Lambo has never made a car that didn't feel raw and that's a big reason why we've all been drawn to them.

I still don't understand why everyone thinks that the reason they didn't put a DSG gearbox in it is money. Ferdinand isn't exactly hurting for money and he's proven that he does what he wants to do like picking up the Bugatti brand and taking a bath on the Veyron to show what a production car could do. We've all seen the Lambo and Audi development sharing with the R8 and Gallardos essentially sharing the same platform, so a great new DSG in a Lambo would most definitely find it's way into cars from both brands. If they really wanted to put a DSG gearbox in there it would be. Lets not overlook the fact that ISR is not EGear and is a completely new transmission that I think will be great. I feel like everyone would have a valid point if nothing changed on that front but it has. After seeing it I'm of the opinion that this car will be a massive success no matter what people are saying now. As soon as everyone sees this thing on the road and how it performs I think most will be believers. If your major concern about the car is the transmission not being Lexus smooth around town I suggest saving 300k and get yourself a Turbo S w/ PDK that is that smooth or remember that Lambo has never made a car that didn't feel raw and that's a big reason why we've all been drawn to them.

 

 

Well said.

Ever wonder why a Gallardo interior is bascially a barfed-up Audi A4 from 2003?

 

Money.

 

Ever wonder why a $350,000 LP640 has plastic bits where aluminum or another more price-tag-appropriate material should be?

 

Money.

 

It's not the ONLY decision, as I've already indicated several times in this thread, but it is definitely a KEY decision.

 

I remember laughing at a show a decade ago where I was listening to two auto execs who were talking about how they chose to place a 4-speed auto transmission in a $45,000 car instead of a 5-speed unit "because it saved $9 per car"...

 

Let's try not to be so naive, and so inexperienced in our knowledge of how the auto industry works, to ever assume that money doesn't go into every decision at every level.

 

This warmed over "ISR" transmission choice (*PR disclaimer) was very likely a question COST, followed by packaging/feel/weight, in that order.

 

Whether it's the right choice or not we will see, but based on the potential buyers in this thread who vote with their wallets, the vote is adding up for "they should have gone with better tech".

 

Personally I'm not sure which system I'd prefer, both have merits. Which makes me the least-biased in this discussion. Just calling it the way it is boys, you don't have to like it.

So that's why VW loses money on every Veyron they sell? It's only about profit and not the trickle down effect a "halo" car can have on a brand? Sorry, I find that hard to believe. And I don't know how you call an all new transmission design with independent actuators for each gear, low relative weight, compact size and completely internalized lubrication "warmed over." So every DSG transmission after the original VW units are also just "warmed over" designs? Additionally, the people on this forum are only a very small fraction of the real Lambo buyers out there. Three people I know with 2 or more Lambos don't even know this forum exists. And one of those is my neighbor with a red/black 2008 Veyron and 32 other cars, including 2 Lambos bought new. Again, I guess it is fruitless to debate the merits of a car that few here have seen and none have driven. Time will tell if Lamborghini is on the right track or not. I for one believe they are.

Ever wonder why a Gallardo interior is bascially a barfed-up Audi A4 from 2003?

 

Money.

 

Ever wonder why a $350,000 LP640 has plastic bits where aluminum or another more price-tag-appropriate material should be?

 

Money.

 

It's not the ONLY decision, as I've already indicated several times in this thread, but it is definitely a KEY decision.

 

I remember laughing at a show a decade ago where I was listening to two auto execs who were talking about how they chose to place a 4-speed auto transmission in a $45,000 car instead of a 5-speed unit "because it saved $9 per car"...

 

Let's try not to be so naive, and so inexperienced in our knowledge of how the auto industry works, to ever assume that money doesn't go into every decision at every level.

 

This warmed over "ISR" transmission choice (*PR disclaimer) was very likely a question COST, followed by packaging/feel/weight, in that order.

 

Whether it's the right choice or not we will see, but based on the potential buyers in this thread who vote with their wallets, the vote is adding up for "they should have gone with better tech".

 

Personally I'm not sure which system I'd prefer, both have merits. Which makes me the least-biased in this discussion. Just calling it the way it is boys, you don't have to like it.

I have close friends in the auto industry, and Mako is spot on.

So that's why VW loses money on every Veyron they sell? It's only about profit and not the trickle down effect a "halo" car can have on a brand? Sorry, I find that hard to believe. And I don't know how you call an all new transmission design with independent actuators for each gear, low relative weight, compact size and completely internalized lubrication "warmed over." So every DSG transmission after the original VW units are also just "warmed over" designs? Additionally, the people on this forum are only a very small fraction of the real Lambo buyers out there. Three people I know with 2 or more Lambos don't even know this forum exists. And one of those is my neighbor with a red/black 2008 Veyron and 32 other cars, including 2 Lambos bought new. Again, I guess it is fruitless to debate the merits of a car that few here have seen and none have driven. Time will tell if Lamborghini is on the right track or not. I for one believe they are.

 

Lamborhini is not a halo brand for VAG. It may have been shortly after purchase, but the release of the Gallardo changed expectations moving forward.

 

Lamborghini is expected to make money for Audi, and lately they've had a very hard time doing it.

 

Because of this state of affairs, every penny is being looked at with not only a magnifying glass but an electron microscope at this point, and it will continue until Lambo can produce more in the black.

 

It's not the fantasy we would like to believe I know, and the harsh realities of it are often distressing, but it doesn't mean they don't turn out excellent, compelling products.

 

The LP700 seems like a hit to me based on what we know, but I won't swallow the nonsense from Lambo-PR about why they "chose" ISR instead of what the top two sportscar marques in HISTORY have chosen to do...and neither should you.

Holy shit!

 

Good thing Mako has patience.

 

Did we just get a flood of new idiots again!!!!????

 

It's all about money you retards.

 

Do a damn search cause the whole Veyron shit is just plain stupid. Or better yet watch the show that is the making of the Veyron and see if there is anything on that car that is usable or affordable on any mass production car.

 

There is no DSG cause there was no extra money to develop it in THE TIME FRAME needed to get this car out. Plain simple end of story.

Lamborhini is not a halo brand for VAG. It may have been shortly after purchase, but the release of the Gallardo changed expectations moving forward.

 

Lamborghini is expected to make money for Audi, and lately they've had a very hard time doing it.

 

Because of this state of affairs, every penny is being looked at with not only a magnifying glass but an electron microscope at this point, and it will continue until Lambo can produce more in the black.

 

It's not the fantasy we would like to believe I know, and the harsh realities of it are often distressing, but it doesn't mean they don't turn out excellent, compelling products.

 

The LP700 seems like a hit to me based on what we know, but I won't swallow the nonsense from Lambo-PR about why they "chose" ISR instead of what the top two sportscar marques in HISTORY have chosen to do...and neither should you.

 

 

Good points on most fronts. I guess we will never agree on the ISR, but that's what makes the world go 'round. If everyone just did "what the two other 'top' sports car marques in history" were doing--then all would surely be lost, for there would never be any innovation. Companies would just perpetuate existing designs and nothing new would ever come to the table. It is also interesting to note that VW Group owns 51 percent of one of those "marques" you mention. I again propose to you that it would have been less expensive for Lambo to re-work the PDK from the Turbo S than design, develop, and test the new ISR unit. It just doesn't seem to make sense that it is "just about the money." That's enough from me!