Fuck da police!

The guy was being a jerk. He walked up on a cop, carrying a firearm, video taping the stop. That would sure as hell make me nervous, and I would consider it " suspicous behavior."

If he produces an ID the story is over.

 

The second cop was being very respectful and quite patient. The guy was pushing the envelope.

 

He keeps spewing "privacy privacy" , then put the fcuking video camera away.

 

I would have locked him up, douchebag

 

Respectfully disagree. This gentleman is exercising his rights; he is in compliance with all laws, rules & regulations. This is what democracy looks like. I can understand the officers being nervous, but if we as a nation are reluctant to exercise our rights, and support our fellow citizens in the exercise of their rights soon we won't have any rights to exercise. What this guy did may be considered "being a pain in the ass" by some, but it is the cornerstone of what this country is all about.

Respectfully disagree. This gentleman is exercising his rights; he is in compliance with all laws, rules & regulations. This is what democracy looks like. I can understand the officers being nervous, but if we as a nation are reluctant to exercise our rights, and support our fellow citizens in the exercise of their rights soon we won't have any rights to exercise. What this guy did may be considered "being a pain in the ass" by some, but it is the cornerstone of what this country is all about.

Lets say you are walking down a street in Santa Fe and a biker gang all open carrying decides they would like to walk behind you and video tape. Certainly aren't breaking any laws by doing so. You going to applaud them too? You have balls of steel if you don't react in some way. The cameraman put the officer into a dangerous situation and was acting suspiciously... Seems reasonable for him to investigate.

Lets say you are walking down a street in Santa Fe and a biker gang all open carrying decides they would like to walk behind you and video tape. Certainly aren't breaking any laws by doing so. You going to applaud them too? You have balls of steel if you don't react in some way. The cameraman put the officer into a dangerous situation and was acting suspiciously... Seems reasonable for him to investigate.

 

I certainly understand what you are saying, and can agree with your reasoning. Police show their professionalism & training in the way they handle these types of encounters. In the case of the video it would seem the officers were leary of the guy doing the videotaping, but seemed to become somewhat more comfortable as they continued talking; otherwise I guess they would have made an arrest.

As much as I am for an individuals rights to own,carry,and protect themselves with firearms...I don't believe open carrying pistols and rifles like they are a fashion accessory has any place in today's society. We unfortunately live in a day an age where random shootings and massacres are a daily occurrence and I have absolutley no problem with officers stopping and investigating every single person they see openly carrying weapons in populated areas. Now if this guy was out somewhere in the mountains or somewhere where it's obvious what the activities his planning on using the weapon for are obvious (hunting,target shooting,walking into a gun range) that's fine...but if a person decides he wants to throw an AR over his shoulder and walk down main street with a ton of people,children and anywhere where carrying concealed would completely satisfy any needs for self protection then that's just silly.

Have you seen 2 posts above yours?

 

 

Ya. That's what I was referring to. Relentlessly beating a man who ran - no matter the cause - isn't right. I'd like to think there is a separation between the US and countries like Saudi Arabia. We don't just punish on the spot - that's left up for the courts. Obviously the guys were overcome with emotion and they had insufficient training. That was pure rage in all those guys.

Wow that comatose minivan driver sure pissed off the wrong department! Totally unprofessional.

 

As much as I am for an individuals rights to own,carry,and protect themselves with firearms...I don't believe open carrying pistols and rifles like they are a fashion accessory has any place in today's society. We unfortunately live in a day an age where random shootings and massacres are a daily occurrence and I have absolutley no problem with officers stopping and investigating every single person they see openly carrying weapons in populated areas. Now if this guy was out somewhere in the mountains or somewhere where it's obvious what the activities his planning on using the weapon for are obvious (hunting,target shooting,walking into a gun range) that's fine...but if a person decides he wants to throw an AR over his shoulder and walk down main street with a ton of people,children and anywhere where carrying concealed would completely satisfy any needs for self protection then that's just silly.

"As long as you can't see it, then you feel safer. Your perception of personal safety is to be heeded by the populace at large." Is that an accurate synopsis?

 

I agree that in most metro areas, open carry causes concern in more people than it doesn't.

As much of a gunnut as I am, I have to say, Im kinda with Rob on all this.... Im NOT a big fan of the open carry thing.

 

In California, its being done for political purposes.... because most people CANT get CCWs, a lot have turned to open carry to turn up the heat on the cops to start issuing permits...I get it.

 

 

In places where CCW is legal and easy, I find it to be practiced mostly by people with a "hey look at me" personality.... Theyre people who WANT the attention and drama they stir up... Its all a bit lame.

 

Bottom line.... If youre not a cowboy, complete with hat and horse, practice a little opsec, and hide the fcuking thing until its needed.

So a police impersonator attempted to pull me over today...

 

Driving to campus this morning in traffic - a blue Crown Vic with blacked out license plate (Indiana Sheriff supporter plate barely visible), lights in rear deck (LED), antenna, spotlight - whole nine yards. He was doing almost under the speed limit in the left lane - holding up traffic. I came up in the right lane, signaled, and got in front of him. He then rode my ass for about a mile until traffic cleared. I usually hit it at this point - the road is quite open and I'm usually doing speeds of 60/70. I knew he wasn't a cop (very familiar with local LE) and so I went for it. He floored it up behind me and hit his corner strobe lights (white). I hit my brakes, he swerved to my right with his window down - yelling and motioning in a manner just like a motorcycle cop would motion to pull a car over. I looked at him and continued going - then picked up my phone to dial 911. He took off. I kept at a safe following distance for miles while on phone with 911.

 

The dispatcher told me to go to a gas station or populated area. Well, if this guy was going to stop me in the middle of a busy highway - why would I feel safe at a gas station? I told her to get a marked car on this guy ASAP. Finally, a whole slew of Metro cops were waiting for this guy (who ran too many lights getting away from me). I gave my story to the cops - who had me and him stopped about a mile apart. Turns out he works for a major company in Indy and lives in my city. They didn't seem like they were arresting him for impersonating - which is a confusing law I guess. Not sure what color(s) his other LED lights were - but the law is kinda tricky on those: It was written at the time police lights had colored lenses - if that makes any sense.

 

Moral of story, especially for your wife/kids: Call 911 and DO NOT stop.

oops, "ticket blitz"

Wasn't sure which cop thread to put this one in, so I'll revive this one.

 

So undeserving of respect...http://reason.com/blog/2012/04/18/no-good-...d-when-they-sto.

Nearly all traffic citations are about revenue, just let me pay a flat fee every year if you're broke and we all go about our own business.

 

 

As much of a gunnut as I am, I have to say, Im kinda with Rob on all this.... Im NOT a big fan of the open carry thing.

 

In California, its being done for political purposes.... because most people CANT get CCWs, a lot have turned to open carry to turn up the heat on the cops to start issuing permits...I get it.

 

 

In places where CCW is legal and easy, I find it to be practiced mostly by people with a "hey look at me" personality.... Theyre people who WANT the attention and drama they stir up... Its all a bit lame.

 

Bottom line.... If youre not a cowboy, complete with hat and horse, practice a little opsec, and hide the fcuking thing until its needed.

 

Completely agree.

 

Open carry is stupid IMO (unless your on a horse wearing a cowboy hat).

 

If there is an armed crime who is the criminal going to shoot first? The person he thinks is the biggest threat...so anyone notices with a gun on their leg.

 

Dumb.

Nearly all traffic citations are about revenue, just let me pay a flat fee every year if you're broke and we all go about our own business.

 

 

A few weeks ago a cop stopped me going 95 in a 70 very late at night, 3 hours from home. I tried hard to get him to let me off.......he didn't but told me to show up to court at a certain date and he would "help me out". Didn't elaborate, but said "you have to show up".

 

So I show up, and he's not there. I figured he was helping me out by intentionally scheduling a court date he would not be present for. The cops there said he's tied up in another part of town and immediately offered to write it down from $400 to $80, no questions asked if I wanted, or I could wait who knows how long for him. I just took the reduction.

 

It's ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

 

 

So... Here is the full 30 minute video of the beating death of Kelly Thomas... Ive watched the whole thing.... It was a murder.

 

I watched most of the video, not all of it, from what I gather (from the audio, since the trees were blocking the view) he was resisting the officers the entire time.

From an officer safety stand point, he could have had an assortment of weapons that is he was trying to get at. I would take 100 dead Kelly Thomas' over a dead peace officer any day of the week.

 

He would be alive today if he wouldnt resisted.

I watched most of the video, not all of it, from what I gather (from the audio, since the trees were blocking the view) he was resisting the officers the entire time.

From an officer safety stand point, he could have had an assortment of weapons that is he was trying to get at. I would take 100 dead Kelly Thomas' over a dead peace officer any day of the week.

 

He would be alive today if he wouldnt resisted.

 

 

He was being unlawfully assualted....

 

RAMOS had NO REASON TO PUT HIS HANDS ON HIM.... Let alone threaten him with the "You see these hands.... They're getting ready to fcuk you up" line. That takes an arrest (which now according to the D.A. Thomas hadn't even broken any laws) and turns it into a crime.

 

Watch the beginning again.... From the MOMENT he confronts Thomas, Ramos has his baton out.... And is TWIRLING IT in a threatening manner.... If YOU had such a weapon and were twirling it like that in public, YOU WOULD BE CHARGED WITH BRANDISHING A WEAPON. This guy didn't go to a police academy... He learned everything he ever needed to know about being a cop from watching James Cagney movies....

 

Further, Ramos makes it clear.... HE KNOWS THOMAS "Why do we have to talk to you every day about something?" He knows he is mentally ill and homeless.

 

Ramos made the decision he was tired of dealing with Thomas, and he was going to "fcuk him up." He puts on his gloves, and then he creates an excuse to escalate the situation (giving Thomas repeated contradictory orders and punching Thomas in the back when Thomas says he cant comply. I watched the tape, and I COULDNT comply with the orders that were being given.... Does that mean they get to "fcuk ME UP" too? His response "you better fcuking learn how real fcuking quick." Another threat. You'll notice... Thomas is TRYING to do what he tells him to do.... But Ramos never tells him "Stand up and put your hands behind your back...." He doesnt WANT to cuff Thomas.... He wants to "fcuk him up". So he starts to hit him (or try to hit him)) Guess what, THATS NOT HIS RIGHT... His choices are : Let him go or; arrest him. "fcuking him up" is not on his menu if he wants to stay out of prison himself.

 

Several police officers have looked at the tape as well.... And reported that Thomas CANT COMPLY while on the ground because the one cop has his arm in an arm lock while the other is demanding Thomas move it in the opposite direction... And if you dont think there are passive aggressive little things like this cops learn how to do to "fcuk up" people guilty of "Contempt of cop" then you need to meet more cops. The classic is screaming "Stop resisting" while they pummel somebody, often long after theyre unconscious and capable of resisting. Another is blows to/Twisting of the genitals... Tough to spot in a scrum.... And provides the A-Hole cop with a feeling of satisfaction. Totally unnecessary.

 

Thomas has a CIVIL RIGHT to RESIST any such unlawful assault, even when its being done by a police officer under FALSE color of authority.

 

Yes... He was being a pita.... He was refusing to talk to them.... Let me reintroduce you to a little thing we call the fifth amendment to the Constitution.

 

Yes he was a homeless schizophrenic.... NOT A CAPITOL OFFENSE.

 

If they intended to arrest him, it shouldnt take 6 of them to effect that arrest... There was somewhere close to 1000 pounds on one 130 pound man.... And no... He wasnt "on something" as the one cop reads off the police beating teleprompter. They keep on him after he goes quiet... And one acknowledges all the blood... They stay on him for another three or four minutes... Because even then they couldnt seem to get his arms behind his back... Probably because he was face up and and had 1000 pounds keeping him from being turned over.

 

Yes in the beginning he was resisting- AN UNLAWFUL ASSAULT THAT HE WAS TOLD HE WAS ABOUT TO RECEIVE... I would resist as well.... Im not going to sit there while two cops who have already decided theyre going to "fcuk me up", fcuk me up.

 

These two fat fucks had had enough of this smartass, and lost their temper, and they took their tazers and batons and smashed his skull in... Then they sat on him until he couldnt breath any more.... All while he was screaming "HELP, PLEASE, IM SORRY, I CANT BREATH".... They dont get to do that.... When they do, and somebody dies, thats called MURDER.

 

And if it came down to it, I would take 1000 DEAD, FAT, WORTHLESS PIECE OF SHIT COPS like this over one dead citizen.

AMEN!

He was being unlawfully assualted....

 

RAMOS had NO REASON TO PUT HIS HANDS ON HIM.... Let alone threaten him with the "You see these hands.... They're getting ready to fcuk you up" line. That takes an arrest (which now according to the D.A. Thomas hadn't even broken any laws) and turns it into a crime.

 

Watch the beginning again.... From the MOMENT he confronts Thomas, Ramos has his baton out.... And is TWIRLING IT in a threatening manner.... If YOU had such a weapon and were twirling it like that in public, YOU WOULD BE CHARGED WITH BRANDISHING A WEAPON. This guy didn't go to a police academy... He learned everything he ever needed to know about being a cop from watching James Cagney movies....

 

Further, Ramos makes it clear.... HE KNOWS THOMAS "Why do we have to talk to you every day about something?" He knows he is mentally ill and homeless.

 

Ramos made the decision he was tired of dealing with Thomas, and he was going to "fcuk him up." He puts on his gloves, and then he creates an excuse to escalate the situation (giving Thomas repeated contradictory orders and punching Thomas in the back when Thomas says he cant comply. I watched the tape, and I COULDNT comply with the orders that were being given.... Does that mean they get to "fcuk ME UP" too? His response "you better fcuking learn how real fcuking quick." Another threat. You'll notice... Thomas is TRYING to do what he tells him to do.... But Ramos never tells him "Stand up and put your hands behind your back...." He doesnt WANT to cuff Thomas.... He wants to "fcuk him up". So he starts to hit him (or try to hit him)) Guess what, THATS NOT HIS RIGHT... His choices are : Let him go or; arrest him. "fcuking him up" is not on his menu if he wants to stay out of prison himself.

 

Several police officers have looked at the tape as well.... And reported that Thomas CANT COMPLY while on the ground because the one cop has his arm in an arm lock while the other is demanding Thomas move it in the opposite direction... And if you dont think there are passive aggressive little things like this cops learn how to do to "fcuk up" people guilty of "Contempt of cop" then you need to meet more cops. The classic is screaming "Stop resisting" while they pummel somebody, often long after theyre unconscious and capable of resisting. Another is blows to/Twisting of the genitals... Tough to spot in a scrum.... And provides the A-Hole cop with a feeling of satisfaction. Totally unnecessary.

 

Thomas has a CIVIL RIGHT to RESIST any such unlawful assault, even when its being done by a police officer under FALSE color of authority.

 

Yes... He was being a pita.... He was refusing to talk to them.... Let me reintroduce you to a little thing we call the fifth amendment to the Constitution.

 

Yes he was a homeless schizophrenic.... NOT A CAPITOL OFFENSE.

 

If they intended to arrest him, it shouldnt take 6 of them to effect that arrest... There was somewhere close to 1000 pounds on one 130 pound man.... And no... He wasnt "on something" as the one cop reads off the police beating teleprompter. They keep on him after he goes quiet... And one acknowledges all the blood... They stay on him for another three or four minutes... Because even then they couldnt seem to get his arms behind his back... Probably because he was face up and and had 1000 pounds keeping him from being turned over.

 

Yes in the beginning he was resisting- AN UNLAWFUL ASSAULT THAT HE WAS TOLD HE WAS ABOUT TO RECEIVE... I would resist as well.... Im not going to sit there while two cops who have already decided theyre going to "fcuk me up", fcuk me up.

 

These two fat fucks had had enough of this smartass, and lost their temper, and they took their tazers and batons and smashed his skull in... Then they sat on him until he couldnt breath any more.... All while he was screaming "HELP, PLEASE, IM SORRY, I CANT BREATH".... They dont get to do that.... When they do, and somebody dies, thats called MURDER.

 

And if it came down to it, I would take 1000 DEAD, FAT, WORTHLESS PIECE OF SHIT COPS like this over one dead citizen.

 

AMEN!!!

Real tough call for me, I would like to side with Thomas but really hard to tell. RD has a good perspective but I will hold judgement.

They've called for a trial.

Thomas has a CIVIL RIGHT to RESIST any such unlawful assault, even when its being done by a police officer under FALSE color of authority.

 

Hey RD, excuse my ignorance but what would defending yourself from officers be labeled as in legal terms? Regular self-defense? I'm sure there's more to it than that and I'm sure it's a very cloudy subject to say the least. Definitely something I'd like to read up on though to know where I stand.

 

He was being unlawfully assualted....

 

RAMOS had NO REASON TO PUT HIS HANDS ON HIM.... Let alone threaten him with the "You see these hands.... They're getting ready to fcuk you up" line. That takes an arrest (which now according to the D.A. Thomas hadn't even broken any laws) and turns it into a crime.

 

Watch the beginning again.... From the MOMENT he confronts Thomas, Ramos has his baton out.... And is TWIRLING IT in a threatening manner.... If YOU had such a weapon and were twirling it like that in public, YOU WOULD BE CHARGED WITH BRANDISHING A WEAPON. This guy didn't go to a police academy... He learned everything he ever needed to know about being a cop from watching James Cagney movies....

 

Further, Ramos makes it clear.... HE KNOWS THOMAS "Why do we have to talk to you every day about something?" He knows he is mentally ill and homeless.

 

Ramos made the decision he was tired of dealing with Thomas, and he was going to "fcuk him up." He puts on his gloves, and then he creates an excuse to escalate the situation (giving Thomas repeated contradictory orders and punching Thomas in the back when Thomas says he cant comply. I watched the tape, and I COULDNT comply with the orders that were being given.... Does that mean they get to "fcuk ME UP" too? His response "you better fcuking learn how real fcuking quick." Another threat. You'll notice... Thomas is TRYING to do what he tells him to do.... But Ramos never tells him "Stand up and put your hands behind your back...." He doesnt WANT to cuff Thomas.... He wants to "fcuk him up". So he starts to hit him (or try to hit him)) Guess what, THATS NOT HIS RIGHT... His choices are : Let him go or; arrest him. "fcuking him up" is not on his menu if he wants to stay out of prison himself.

 

Several police officers have looked at the tape as well.... And reported that Thomas CANT COMPLY while on the ground because the one cop has his arm in an arm lock while the other is demanding Thomas move it in the opposite direction... And if you dont think there are passive aggressive little things like this cops learn how to do to "fcuk up" people guilty of "Contempt of cop" then you need to meet more cops. The classic is screaming "Stop resisting" while they pummel somebody, often long after theyre unconscious and capable of resisting. Another is blows to/Twisting of the genitals... Tough to spot in a scrum.... And provides the A-Hole cop with a feeling of satisfaction. Totally unnecessary.

 

Thomas has a CIVIL RIGHT to RESIST any such unlawful assault, even when its being done by a police officer under FALSE color of authority.

 

Yes... He was being a pita.... He was refusing to talk to them.... Let me reintroduce you to a little thing we call the fifth amendment to the Constitution.

 

Yes he was a homeless schizophrenic.... NOT A CAPITOL OFFENSE.

 

If they intended to arrest him, it shouldnt take 6 of them to effect that arrest... There was somewhere close to 1000 pounds on one 130 pound man.... And no... He wasnt "on something" as the one cop reads off the police beating teleprompter. They keep on him after he goes quiet... And one acknowledges all the blood... They stay on him for another three or four minutes... Because even then they couldnt seem to get his arms behind his back... Probably because he was face up and and had 1000 pounds keeping him from being turned over.

 

Yes in the beginning he was resisting- AN UNLAWFUL ASSAULT THAT HE WAS TOLD HE WAS ABOUT TO RECEIVE... I would resist as well.... Im not going to sit there while two cops who have already decided theyre going to "fcuk me up", fcuk me up.

 

These two fat fucks had had enough of this smartass, and lost their temper, and they took their tazers and batons and smashed his skull in... Then they sat on him until he couldnt breath any more.... All while he was screaming "HELP, PLEASE, IM SORRY, I CANT BREATH".... They dont get to do that.... When they do, and somebody dies, thats called MURDER.

 

And if it came down to it, I would take 1000 DEAD, FAT, WORTHLESS PIECE OF SHIT COPS like this over one dead citizen.

 

 

 

I completely disagre, Kelley knew he got busted for having someone else’s mail in his possession and refused to follow directions (not putting his hands on his knees and feet in front).He was asked several times to do so and it looked to officer Ramos he was trying to run.

 

The gloves were put on by Officer Ramos right after they decided to hook him up, common practice when dealing with homeless. The gloves were handed to him by the second officer.

 

I disagree with brandishing the baton comment as well. Ramos was holding it down by his side and not up in the air in an attacking motion or any threatening manner.

 

Yes, some of Ramos's comments were unprofessional.

 

I completely disagree with the arm lock comment.

 

The two officers were fighting with Kelley for over 2 minutes (fight begins at 15:50) and he still would not comply. After other officers arrived, you can still see him trying to kick, being combative and not following directions. They finally subdue him at 22:00 and yet he is still fighting. Six minutes of pure grappling is no joke, that with the addition of being tazed and his face smashed in he still had the juice to fight back. Possible use of PCP was assumed, if I was in their position I would assume the same thing.

 

Kelly had a criminal background and a history of violence, I dont see how the officers could have reacted differently. As disturbing it is to see a human die, Kelley created this situation and was fighting to his last breath.

 

I had a phone call today with one of my rugby teammates today who said he was a passenger in a car that belonged to his German client but over here.

 

He said that they were driving along at a quite fast pace here and then they were pulled over by an unmarked police car.

 

German citizen on UK roads, copper can ,if he really wanted to, issue an immediate court summons and a hefty fine for the speed he was doing

 

Cop wanders up to the open window and says

 

"Can you tell me why you were speeding?"

 

German

 

"I was late for an arsehole convention"

 

Copper laughed and issued a verbal warning.

 

 

"Im a proctologist and I'm late for an arsehole convention"

Fixed it for you.