Martin/Zimmerman thread

Here's another view. Forget the skin color and lets address the simple aspect of appearance.

If this kid was walking through the neighborhood in a school uniform, suit and tie, or even simply a normal fitting shirt and jeans, he would not have been "profiled".

 

When you see cctv of crimes at, say, banks, convenience stores, etc. the perpetrators are typically dressed in a manner that conceals their appearance and, whether anyone will admit it or not, a large proportion of these crimes are committed by people dressed in the same manner this young man was. Does profiling a style of dress make one a racist? If I see someone near my place of business or home they are, I'm not looking at their skin color but rather their overall profile which factors in their movements and style of clothes.

 

As a "minority", I can count on one hand the number of times I've been "profiled" and, guess what: I was dressed like shit every time.

I believe race has little to do with profiling so much as the prejudice against the style of dress.

 

Now, am I condoning the fact that profiling a style of dress is right? No. However, I believe that this is the more important factor. Race is not the issue.

Meanwhile at the trayvon rally in Miami...

What's that, 50 people?

What's that, 50 people?

How many of those people do you think have a job?

More fuel for the fire........

 

Beyoncé and JAY Z Attend Trayvon Martin Rally in NYC

 

 

 

http://www.eonline.com/news/441067/beyonce...=rss_topstories

More fuel for the fire........

 

Beyoncé and JAY Z Attend Trayvon Martin Rally in NYC

 

 

 

http://www.eonline.com/news/441067/beyonce...=rss_topstories

I hate both of them.

More fuel for the fire........

 

Beyoncé and JAY Z Attend Trayvon Martin Rally in NYC

 

http://www.eonline.com/news/441067/beyonce...=rss_topstories

 

http://www.lambopower.com/forum/index.php?...t&p=1051322

 

I hate both of them.

 

http://www.decodedscience.com/roderick-sco...of-murder/33569

 

Roderick Scott: The ‘Black George Zimmerman’ Acquitted of Murder in 2009

 

Roderick Scott, an African American man, shot and killed Christopher Cervini, a 17-year-old white youth, in 2009.

 

Scott faced a charge of first-degree manslaughter, and claimed he shot the teen in self defense.

 

Scott was subsequently acquitted.

 

All this happened in New York State, which, even back then, had much tougher gun and self defense laws than the state of Florida has.

 

What are the legal similarities and differences between this case and the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case?

 

Three Teens Breaking into Cars

 

During the early morning hours of April 4, 2009, 42-year-old Roderick Scott was asleep on the couch of his Greece, New York home, just outside of Rochester. He was awakened by some noise outside.

 

Scott looked out the window and saw three teens attempting to break into his car. He grabbed his gun, for which he had a legal permit, put it in his waistband and told his girlfriend to call 911 before going outside.

 

When Scott went out, he confronted the youths, who were going through a neighbor’s car. According to Scott, he told them to stop and wait for the police. The incident ended after Scott fired two shots at Christopher Cervini, killing him.

 

What Happened? Accounts Differ

 

According to 15-year-old James Cervini, one of the three, and Christopher’s cousin, Scott shot Christopher after the teen yelled, “Please don’t shoot me, I’m just a kid.” Scott, who testified in his own defense, said he only fired after Christopher came running at him in a threatening manner.

 

Scott’s attorney, James Parrinello, argued it was likely Christopher went at Scott to give James a chance to get away. James was already bound by two probation orders and the consequences of being charged with breaking into cars would have been more serious for him.

 

Scott Originally Charged with Murder

 

Unlike George Zimmerman, Scott was immediately arrested after the shooting and charged with murder. A grand jury later reduced the charge to first-degree manslaughter. The jury deliberated for about 19 hours before rendering a verdict of not guilty on December 18, 2009.

 

Manslaughter and Self Defense in New York State

 

Under section 125.20 of the New York Penal Law, first-degree manslaughter is defined as when a person intends to cause serious physical injury to another person and causes the death of that person or a third party. First-degree manslaughter also applies to cases that would otherwise constitute murder but the defendant, at the time the act was committed, suffered from extreme emotional disturbance.

 

It is clear that at the time Scott fired two shots into Cervini, he intended to cause serious physical injury to Cervini. He would have had to have been convicted of manslaughter unless the killing was justified.

 

Under New York law, deadly physical force is defined as the use of force that can reasonably be expected to cause death or serious physical injury. Under section 35.15 of the New York Penal Law, deadly physical force is justified if the person who uses it has a reasonable belief that the other person is using or is about to use deadly physical force against him or her.

 

In New York, the use of deadly physical force is not justified if the defendant is not in his or her dwelling and they have an opportunity to safely retreat from the situation. The New York Penal Law is similar to the law of Florida in terms of the onus of proof. A defendant need not prove a killing is justified and the jury must acquit unless they are satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that the killing was not justified.

 

Zimmerman’s reason for leaving his car and following Trayvon Martin was so that he would not lose sight of him before police arrived. Scott testified that he left his home because he lived in a rather isolated area and the teens would have been long gone by the time police arrived.

 

Both Zimmerman and Scott made 911 calls although Scott’s girlfriend made the actual call at Scott’s request. These calls went a long way in negating intent; people who are looking for a fight or intentionally want to inflict harm against another, usually do not telephone the authorities and advise them of their location.

 

Zimmerman got involved with Martin because, as a member of the neighborhood watch, he was trying to prevent crimes in his general area rather than crimes that directly affected him; there was a lot of crime in the gated area where Zimmerman lived.

 

Similarly, there were a lot of property crimes in Scott’s neighborhood, and by the time Scott got outside, the teens had moved on to someone else’s vehicle and the 42-year-old was not personally being victimized.

 

Both men were never confronted or victimized at the time they left their car or home to encounter the two teens that would eventually be shot dead.

 

Both Zimmerman and Scott had legal permits for the weapons they used.

 

Despite these parallels, the two cases are not exactly the same.

 

Major Differences Between the Martin and Cervini Deaths

 

At the time Zimmerman decided to leave his vehicle and follow Martin, he had no proof the 17-year-old was engaged in illegal activity. There was never any evidence that Martin was doing anything other than returning to the residence where he was staying after a trip to a convenience store.

 

Scott actually observed Cervini and the other two breaking into cars at the time he confronted them, unlike Martin who was simply walking when Zimmerman began following him.

 

Although Martin had traces of marijuana in his body at the time he died, there is no evidence it affected his behavior that night. Cervini, on the other hand not only had amphetamines and marijuana in his system, but he had more than the legal limit of alcohol in his blood when he died; according to accounts, he got drunk from a stolen bottle of gin.

 

According to Zimmerman, Martin sucker punched him and knocked his head on the ground before Zimmerman took out his gun and shot Martin. The jury did not have to believe this to acquit him; all they had to decide there was a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was not acting in self defense when he shot Martin. And there was some physical evidence, namely injuries to Zimmerman’s face and head, to corroborate Zimmerman’s version of events.

 

The evidence in the Scott case, including that from the defendant, was that there was never any direct physical contact between him and the deceased. In this regard, his use of the justification defense was not nearly as strong as Zimmerman’s. While Zimmerman could not be expected to retreat while Martin was on top of him, slamming his head into the pavement, Scott did not even try to retreat from Cervini, who was unarmed and not in direct contact with him.

 

Another major difference between the two cases is the media coverage. Although there were a few articles published after Martin was killed that compared the two cases, there was virtually no coverage of the Scott case in 2009, other than by the local media in the Rochester area.

 

Trayvon Martin vs. Christopher Cervini

 

Those who are saying that if Zimmerman had been black and Martin white, he would have been convicted, should take a good look at the Scott case.

Despite the fact the verdict in the Scott case resulted in one less African American being incarcerated in an American prison, neither President Obama, nor Rev. Al Sharpton – nor the NAACP have chosen to publicly comment on the jury’s decision.

 

Not sure if it has been mentioned.. Is George going to still live in the US? I can't imagine him not ending up dead in the next 6-12 months?

 

The not guilty verdict prob made the parents a few million . While it won't bring their son back ..they actually would have made nothing if he was found guilty....

You don't think Z could move to Oklahoma?

 

I could see him living in most any small town in the Midwest.

 

Maybe serve in the military?

 

 

 

 

Gz a hero??!!

 

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=19735432&...scued_truck.php

Gz a hero??!!

 

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=19735432&...scued_truck.php

 

Doesn't matter anymore sadly.

How the fcuk is this even a story right now?

 

 

Regardless of if you felt he racially profiled Martin you can't tell me he would have refused to rescue black people from an overturned SUV.

Of course JayZ is there to keep himself in the media... his newest album just came out!

 

 

And jesus christ TMZ. Gotta love the media fanning the (racial) flames.

Some pretty funny comments relating the Zimmerman crash rescue:

 

http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index...&show_all=1

Some pretty funny comments relating the Zimmerman crash rescue:

 

http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index...&show_all=1

 

 

I am dying...

 

 

OnStar: Remain calm. Help will arrive momentarily.

 

Driver: Actually, some creepy ass cracker is pulling me out....

I used to have a car that looked like the one that Zimmerman pulled that guy out of

 

- Obama

 

 

 

Reports say there were Skittles all over the dashboard.

 

 

 

This guy is still alive? I thought [Victor] Cruz said someone from the hood will get him

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I found this pretty interesting

 

"Romany Malco pens message to Trayvon sympathizers"

 

http://blackamericaweb.com/148142/romany-m...n-sympathizers/

A word about "profiling," which has been mentioned in this thread several times (and in the media a lot in connection with the Zimmerman case as well). There was no evidence presented that Zimmerman followed Martin in part because of his race, but if he had, so what?

 

Back before our society became afflicted with the insanity of political correctness, that used to be called "using common sense." That is, the police and people in general pay more attention to those who look (and dress, act, etc.) similar to people who have been committing certain crimes, or who statistically commit more crimes than other people. Entities with larger budgets (e.g., the FBI) took it a step further and employed people to look not only at race, gender, etc. but also at psychological and sociological background, and they called them, amazingly enough, "profilers!" Once upon a time, that was considered good, common sense detective work. But somehow, over the last 15-20 years, the PC adherents have managed to equate any focus on race or ethnicity with unlawful discrimination, and they have succeeded to the point where news reports of various crimes often fail to even mention the race or ethnicity of the suspect, despite the fact that the police are still looking for him (usually it's a him). The backlash against "profiling" really seemed to kick into high gear, IMO, after 911, when we were all (including law enforcement) admonished not to "profile" Muslims or people of Middle Eastern appearance, despite the fact that all of the hijackers were young males of Middle Eastern descent, the vast majority of whom were from Saudi Arabia, and despite the fact that they claimed they were furthering their religious beliefs (misguided or otherwise). That brought us invasive TSA searches of elderly women, children, and many others whose propensity to commit a violent crime was essentially nil. But not all of the LE community has knuckled under, and the NYPD has recently been under fire for its stop and frisk policy, because something like 85-90% of the people stopped are black or Latino. Their defense? They are actually stopping fewer blacks and Hispanics, statistically, than those who commit or suffer violent crimes in NYC, as 96-97% of both shooting suspects and shooting victims in NYC are black or Hispanic. Yet there are those who believe that LE and people in general should act as though those kinds of statistics don't exist.

 

Anyway, let me say that I can sympathize with those who are law abiding and who may feel that they are (or actually are) subjected to a stop or just to heightened suspicion because of their race or appearance. I am a white male, so I can't say that I've experienced that feeling, but I can believe that it would not feel good. But I can also say that if Saudi Arabia had been attacked by a group of middle-aged white men from the Southern U.S., and I went to Saudi Arabia, I would certainly expect to be the subject of a lot more attention than the natives, whether it felt good or not. And the same would be true if middle-aged, white males committed a lot more crimes than their percentage of the population.

 

 

I really enjoy listening to that guy.

Can you believe HOW INCREDIBLY DUMB this STUPID fcuk Jesse Jackson is? He is pushing a political agenda to boycott travel and tourism to Florida because of the Martin case. The dumb fcuk doesnt understand that 60%-70% of the people in the TRAVEL AND TOURISM INDUSTRY IN FLORIDA ARE MINORITIES!!!!! WHAT A STUPID fcuk!!!!!

 

 

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/22888723...t-is-outrageous

Can you believe HOW INCREDIBLY DUMB this STUPID fcuk Jesse Jackson is? He is pushing a political agenda to boycott travel and tourism to Florida because of the Martin case. The dumb fcuk doesnt understand that 60%-70% of the people in the TRAVEL AND TOURISM INDUSTRY IN FLORIDA ARE MINORITIES!!!!! WHAT A STUPID fcuk!!!!!

 

 

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/22888723...t-is-outrageous

 

He's a world class narcissist that's for damn sure, and an asshole on top of it. I'm surprised other minorities haven't told him to sit the fcuk down already.

Can you believe HOW INCREDIBLY DUMB this STUPID fcuk Jesse Jackson is? He is pushing a political agenda to boycott travel and tourism to Florida because of the Martin case. The dumb fcuk doesnt understand that 60%-70% of the people in the TRAVEL AND TOURISM INDUSTRY IN FLORIDA ARE MINORITIES!!!!! WHAT A STUPID fcuk!!!!!

 

 

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/22888723...t-is-outrageous

 

You have to understand that these 'activists' make a living by 'stirring the pot' and being politically correct. Contrary to what they preach, they don't pay their taxes, and live lavishly off of their campaign and non-profit donations, and get compensated for contributing their worthless opinions to the mainstream media. They're bigots and fraudsters. Florida will be better off without him and his supporters.