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Glorious announcement! Eternal President Kim Il-Sung proud would be!

 

Okay, but he is going to need some medals like the ones below or he may not be respected.

 

NorthKoreanMilitaryMedals.jpg

 

Note to Wheels, wear a jacket and long pants.

 

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Okay, but he is going to need some medals like the ones below or he may not be respected.

 

post-652-1502299305.jpg

 

Note to Wheels, wear a jacket and long pants.

 

isn't the guy 3rd from the right his uncle he executed?

 

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All political posturing , nothing is going to happen.

To go along with that, here's a comment on Reddit that laid it out pretty well

"I've said it before but I'll say it again...

I've noticed that there are a lot of articles lately discussing how NK's missiles are capable of hitting US states now. These threads usually devolve into arguments about how Japan must be getting antsy or how Seoul is (or is not) at risk of artillery shelling or chemical attacks. Not to mention, how China love-hates North Korea. Before we get into any war scenarios, I want to make this point:

Even if we agree that North Korea has the ability to attack America, we must ask the more important question of whether they have a REASON to attack America or her allies.

If NK was more powerful than America, maybe they'd attack us. But they're not. Not by a long shot. You know that. All that rhetoric of engulfing America in a sea of flames is FOR THEIR OWN PEOPLE - who by the way are increasingly ignoring the propaganda themselves. South Koreans and North Korean defectors are waging a cultural war in North Korea by sending in USB drives full of KPOP and KDRAMAS and KFILMS. If you want internal change, that's how you do it. You have to subvert the propaganda with proof of wealth on the outside, not meet it head on by upping our own militant rhetoric. That's playing into their own game!

If we as the public and you Media folks fail to parse out the fact that NK gov't prefers the status quo, we will only bring fear and greater uncertainty to the American public because we will continue to read headlines about NK's capabilities without factoring in their reasoning.

Import side note: calling Kim Jong Un "crazy" or "unstable" doesn't do us any good because it shifts our perspective of him. We need to interpret his actions carefully, not dismiss them arrogantly. Every move he has made, from gaining weight so that he looks more like his revered grandfather to killing his China-backed brother, Kim Jong Un's actions are carefully considered to ensure his regime's preservation.

In the face of these facts we need to ask ourselves this simple question: Would he have anything to gain by attacking America or her allies with a nuclear strike?

If you've been paying attention the answer should be a resounding no. The second NK strikes first, they lose any and all moral authority as the aggressor and they leave themselves open to merciless retaliation and a sure end to the Kim dynasty.

The opposite would be true if the US were to attack. The second America strikes first, China and Russia would point an accusatory finger at us for disrupting the status quo in a region that has seen stability and growth for decades now. South Korea, should it not give consent will feel betrayed by her most important ally for going behind her back. You folks chiming in every so often saying it's "time to do something" without understanding any of this are only making the situation WORSE. You're giving journos clicks for inflammatory headlines. You're giving writers a reason to make that headline more scary and you're feeding the bias that comes from misunderstanding.

Believe me I'm no fan of the current administration but even Trump knows this. It's why he hasn't attacked. It's why he's been trying to pressure China. You don't think he'd have done something by now if he could when he's losing face over the NK issue?

China has been happily advancing its society for the last few decades and anything to hinder this progress will be stopped with great prejudice. As such a war in Korea would throw the world's economy into chaos. You're advocating a conflict between China, the US, Korea, and Japan and you don't think that's gonna be the case? South Korea is not only a major trading partner, investor, and employer in America, it is now a regional power in Asia that should be given full consideration before any action is taken and as far as I can tell articles and comment threads don't give much attention to the South Korean perspective.

America and her Allies have aligned interests. If you go America first at the sake of an ally's wishes, you're going to lose whatever faith our other allies have in us. It's why our guarantee of retaliation is so powerful. If we didn't retaliate against a NK strike on our allies, our guarantee of security to other allies will crumble.

Sen. Lindsey Graham seems to think America wouldn't suffer in case of a war in Korea. Let me assure you if there is war American jobs will be lost (those employed by Korean companies), American lives will be lost (servicemen and civilians in Korea), and America may well lose favor among East Asian nations if the war gets out of hand and the repercussions echo throughout the region. That is to say, refugees from South Korea will flee to Japan. North Koreans will flee to China.

And you think Syria is bad?

A NK nuclear strike on America or her allies is out of the question. NK will not strike first with nuclear arms unless we corner them. You know what they say about cornering prey right? It's the dumbest thing you can do because they will go all out when there is nothing to lose. Always leave room to escape (de-escalate).

By getting suckered into the media narrative of a greater chance of war, our countries inch closer to war because of the increased fear among the public. Fear blinds us and when fear is founded on incomplete information, we make poor choices on top of being blinded.

We have missile defense systems in America and Japan. We are not without recourse there and therefore the threat is not really there. The threat is to South Korea who is a bit too close for most systems to be effective as I understand especially in an artillery barrage scenario. This is why the THAAD is so controversial. It's nice to have, but unnecessary considering the other threats it won't deter (artillery) and the political fallout it leads to (China retaliating economically against South Korea). Not to mention, South Korea already possesses America's retaliation as a deterrent to a nuclear strike as covered above.

It is true that North Korea is growing in capability and there are valid fears that even if NK never attacks, they could still sell their nuclear technology. To this I say increase monitoring and disincentivize those countries or entities who would seek to buy. I hear the Iran deal is working out alright so far.

Nuclear technology will spread throughout the world as a matter of time just as gunpowder weapons did. It will be impossible to stop the proliferation of information but what we can do is deter the USE of this information by not pushing each other into corners. What we should do instead is invest heavily in defensive technology to preemptively castrate any possible threats by proliferating wealth and trade relationships with "problem" countries. We also need to remember though that the Korean war was a proxy war between Stalinist forces and US forces in the aftermath of World War 2. Instead of dividing up Japan like we did Germany after the war, we divided up Korea who had been suffering from Japanese exploitation for 30+ years all because Korea is located in a more strategically significant location (next to China). We must therefore understand that NK's increased nuclear capabilities are also an extension of modern Russian and US relations. The two will avoid a direct confrontation but wherever they can they will try to top each other (see Ukraine, Syria, now North Korea).

If NK starts rampaging through Asia, sure let's wipe them out. But NK has yet to invade a country since ceasefire in 1953 (save for a brief stint with the NVA, which SK was on the other side of). Skirmishes have occurred, but neither side wants it to escalate any further.

To close, I want to emphasize the importance of building the relationship between the USA and SK, USA and China, and China and SK. The stronger these relationships are (read: better informed) the even less likely NK will dare to step out of line. China won't stop feeding NK behind the scenes so if the other relationships listed get complicated, we will have lost the long term war as China gets stronger by virtue of population and NK climbs out of poverty in the long run via the feeding tube.So long as America can align its desires for the status quo (as with China) by building up relationships with Countries around NK, we will continue to prevent war as we have the last 70 years. Mr. President, please feel free to ignore the NK threat as there is none in the face of America's overwhelming advantage in every respect. America, don't entertain the idea of striking preemptively and you won't give China and Russia any political ammo to shoot at us. If NK goes postal on SK then yeah let loose the hounds of war but till then rest easy as we have countermeasures in place already.

TLDR: If America wants peace it has one option. Better journalism. Stop talking about what NK is capable of and start talking about what NK wants: the status quo. Also include what WE are capable of in defensive terms. Should the bald eagle bat its eyes when the bunny bares its teeth?"

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Seems the way the glorious leader is gaining weight he'll have a heart attack before we have any kind of war.

 

Or maybe he is so glorious that he doesn't have to worry about that........

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Taking a cue from Bill Maher who had a Obama impersonator recite quotes from Trump. Imagine someone else saying the following about Kim Jung Un...

 

 

"...he was a young man of 26 or 27... when his father died. He's dealing with obviously very tough people, in particular the generals and others."

 

"And at a very young age, he was able to assume power...So obviously, he's a pretty smart cookie."

 

Insane to think our president said those things about Kim Jung Un who basically flipped him the bird.

 

 

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Wheels. Please. No more in this thread.

 

capt_chaos, you have got to be kidding me. All I am doing is debating and providing my own opinions about things.

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The opposite would be true if the US were to attack. The second America strikes first, China and Russia would point an accusatory finger at us for disrupting the status quo in a region that has seen stability and growth for decades now. South Korea, should it not give consent will feel betrayed by her most important ally for going behind her back.

 

While I agree that South Korea most definitely needs to be taken into account regarding any first strike ideas, the United States I think could easily point a finger back at the Chinese and Russians, and the Chinese in particular, for having already been undermining the status quo. Russia invaded Crimea. China claims the entire South China Sea as belonging to it and has been building up man-made islands in the region and gradually encircling Taiwan. They also continue to prop up the North Korea regime which has led to its acquiring of nuclear weapons. It is they who have been undermining the status quo and the stability in those regions.

 

You folks chiming in every so often saying it's "time to do something" without understanding any of this are only making the situation WORSE. You're giving journos clicks for inflammatory headlines. You're giving writers a reason to make that headline more scary and you're feeding the bias that comes from misunderstanding.

Believe me I'm no fan of the current administration but even Trump knows this. It's why he hasn't attacked. It's why he's been trying to pressure China. You don't think he'd have done something by now if he could when he's losing face over the NK issue?

 

China has been happily advancing its society for the last few decades and anything to hinder this progress will be stopped with great prejudice. As such a war in Korea would throw the world's economy into chaos. You're advocating a conflict between China, the US, Korea, and Japan and you don't think that's gonna be the case? South Korea is not only a major trading partner, investor, and employer in America, it is now a regional power in Asia that should be given full consideration before any action is taken and as far as I can tell articles and comment threads don't give much attention to the South Korean perspective.

 

Those advocating pre-emptive attack on North Korea are not advocating war in Korea. That would be insanity, because it would require an enormous number of troops, and the U.S. military is in no condition for conducting such a campaign right now, plus it could draw China in like in the original Korean War. The idea of pre-emptive attack would be to knock out their nuclear capability. But the problem is that the intelligence to guarantee all said nuclear capability would be knocked out is not adequate, and in addition, North Korea could then launch attacks on South Korea in retaliation.

 

A NK nuclear strike on America or her allies is out of the question. NK will not strike first with nuclear arms unless we corner them. You know what they say about cornering prey right? It's the dumbest thing you can do because they will go all out when there is nothing to lose. Always leave room to escape (de-escalate).

 

That can be true, but we are not talking about cornering North Korea. This is North Korea's doing. They are the ones building the nuclear weapons and undermining the status quo in terms of acquiring the capability to strike the mainland United States. They have room to escape, it's called end their nuclear program. Just as this guy says Kim has no real reason to actually attack America, well America has no real reason to attack North Korea either if it has no nuclear capability. There is a HUGE amount of room for North Korea to escape. What many people call "de-escalation' is really appeasement.

 

We have missile defense systems in America and Japan. We are not without recourse there and therefore the threat is not really there.

 

Either I'm misunderstanding him or he has no idea what he's talking about here. We have missile defense systems which have a VERY spotty record right now in terms of their capability to shoot down any nuclear missile. It is a technology that we have been working on for decades since Reagan started the Strategic Defense Initiative. Democrats have repeatedly tried to kill it or hamstring it, up to and including Obama. Great progress has been made with it, and off-spring from it have been the Patriot Missile Defense System, the Israel Iron Dome system, and the Navy's Aegis system, but in terms of its prime goal, as in a nation launches a nuclear missile at us and we can just shoot it down, it is not at all ready for prime-time yet.

 

So the threat from a technical perspective still very much IS there.

 

We must therefore understand that NK's increased nuclear capabilities are also an extension of modern Russian and US relations. The two will avoid a direct confrontation but wherever they can they will try to top each other (see Ukraine, Syria, now North Korea).

 

North Korea's increased nuclear capabilities are more a extension of Chinese power, not Russian power.

 

So long as America can align its desires for the status quo (as with China) by building up relationships with Countries around NK, we will continue to prevent war as we have the last 70 years.

 

The problem is that China is not interested in the status quo. The status quo is American dominance of the South China Sea and freedom of navigation in the region, through which trillions in trade flow. China's goal is Chinese dominance of the region.

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capt_chaos, you have got to be kidding me. All I am doing is debating and providing my own opinions about things.

Nope. No joke. The posts are walls of banal text.

Not as if we have not cited you before.

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To go along with that, here's a comment on Reddit that laid it out pretty well

"I've said it before but I'll say it again...

I've noticed that there are a lot of articles lately discussing how NK's missiles are capable of hitting US states now. These threads usually devolve into arguments about how Japan must be getting antsy or how Seoul is (or is not) at risk of artillery shelling or chemical attacks. Not to mention, how China love-hates North Korea. Before we get into any war scenarios, I want to make this point:

Even if we agree that North Korea has the ability to attack America, we must ask the more important question of whether they have a REASON to attack America or her allies.

If NK was more powerful than America, maybe they'd attack us. But they're not. Not by a long shot. You know that. All that rhetoric of engulfing America in a sea of flames is FOR THEIR OWN PEOPLE - who by the way are increasingly ignoring the propaganda themselves. South Koreans and North Korean defectors are waging a cultural war in North Korea by sending in USB drives full of KPOP and KDRAMAS and KFILMS. If you want internal change, that's how you do it. You have to subvert the propaganda with proof of wealth on the outside, not meet it head on by upping our own militant rhetoric. That's playing into their own game!

If we as the public and you Media folks fail to parse out the fact that NK gov't prefers the status quo, we will only bring fear and greater uncertainty to the American public because we will continue to read headlines about NK's capabilities without factoring in their reasoning.

Import side note: calling Kim Jong Un "crazy" or "unstable" doesn't do us any good because it shifts our perspective of him. We need to interpret his actions carefully, not dismiss them arrogantly. Every move he has made, from gaining weight so that he looks more like his revered grandfather to killing his China-backed brother, Kim Jong Un's actions are carefully considered to ensure his regime's preservation.

In the face of these facts we need to ask ourselves this simple question: Would he have anything to gain by attacking America or her allies with a nuclear strike?

If you've been paying attention the answer should be a resounding no. The second NK strikes first, they lose any and all moral authority as the aggressor and they leave themselves open to merciless retaliation and a sure end to the Kim dynasty.

The opposite would be true if the US were to attack. The second America strikes first, China and Russia would point an accusatory finger at us for disrupting the status quo in a region that has seen stability and growth for decades now. South Korea, should it not give consent will feel betrayed by her most important ally for going behind her back. You folks chiming in every so often saying it's "time to do something" without understanding any of this are only making the situation WORSE. You're giving journos clicks for inflammatory headlines. You're giving writers a reason to make that headline more scary and you're feeding the bias that comes from misunderstanding.

Believe me I'm no fan of the current administration but even Trump knows this. It's why he hasn't attacked. It's why he's been trying to pressure China. You don't think he'd have done something by now if he could when he's losing face over the NK issue?

China has been happily advancing its society for the last few decades and anything to hinder this progress will be stopped with great prejudice. As such a war in Korea would throw the world's economy into chaos. You're advocating a conflict between China, the US, Korea, and Japan and you don't think that's gonna be the case? South Korea is not only a major trading partner, investor, and employer in America, it is now a regional power in Asia that should be given full consideration before any action is taken and as far as I can tell articles and comment threads don't give much attention to the South Korean perspective.

America and her Allies have aligned interests. If you go America first at the sake of an ally's wishes, you're going to lose whatever faith our other allies have in us. It's why our guarantee of retaliation is so powerful. If we didn't retaliate against a NK strike on our allies, our guarantee of security to other allies will crumble.

Sen. Lindsey Graham seems to think America wouldn't suffer in case of a war in Korea. Let me assure you if there is war American jobs will be lost (those employed by Korean companies), American lives will be lost (servicemen and civilians in Korea), and America may well lose favor among East Asian nations if the war gets out of hand and the repercussions echo throughout the region. That is to say, refugees from South Korea will flee to Japan. North Koreans will flee to China.

And you think Syria is bad?

A NK nuclear strike on America or her allies is out of the question. NK will not strike first with nuclear arms unless we corner them. You know what they say about cornering prey right? It's the dumbest thing you can do because they will go all out when there is nothing to lose. Always leave room to escape (de-escalate).

By getting suckered into the media narrative of a greater chance of war, our countries inch closer to war because of the increased fear among the public. Fear blinds us and when fear is founded on incomplete information, we make poor choices on top of being blinded.

We have missile defense systems in America and Japan. We are not without recourse there and therefore the threat is not really there. The threat is to South Korea who is a bit too close for most systems to be effective as I understand especially in an artillery barrage scenario. This is why the THAAD is so controversial. It's nice to have, but unnecessary considering the other threats it won't deter (artillery) and the political fallout it leads to (China retaliating economically against South Korea). Not to mention, South Korea already possesses America's retaliation as a deterrent to a nuclear strike as covered above.

It is true that North Korea is growing in capability and there are valid fears that even if NK never attacks, they could still sell their nuclear technology. To this I say increase monitoring and disincentivize those countries or entities who would seek to buy. I hear the Iran deal is working out alright so far.

Nuclear technology will spread throughout the world as a matter of time just as gunpowder weapons did. It will be impossible to stop the proliferation of information but what we can do is deter the USE of this information by not pushing each other into corners. What we should do instead is invest heavily in defensive technology to preemptively castrate any possible threats by proliferating wealth and trade relationships with "problem" countries. We also need to remember though that the Korean war was a proxy war between Stalinist forces and US forces in the aftermath of World War 2. Instead of dividing up Japan like we did Germany after the war, we divided up Korea who had been suffering from Japanese exploitation for 30+ years all because Korea is located in a more strategically significant location (next to China). We must therefore understand that NK's increased nuclear capabilities are also an extension of modern Russian and US relations. The two will avoid a direct confrontation but wherever they can they will try to top each other (see Ukraine, Syria, now North Korea).

If NK starts rampaging through Asia, sure let's wipe them out. But NK has yet to invade a country since ceasefire in 1953 (save for a brief stint with the NVA, which SK was on the other side of). Skirmishes have occurred, but neither side wants it to escalate any further.

To close, I want to emphasize the importance of building the relationship between the USA and SK, USA and China, and China and SK. The stronger these relationships are (read: better informed) the even less likely NK will dare to step out of line. China won't stop feeding NK behind the scenes so if the other relationships listed get complicated, we will have lost the long term war as China gets stronger by virtue of population and NK climbs out of poverty in the long run via the feeding tube.So long as America can align its desires for the status quo (as with China) by building up relationships with Countries around NK, we will continue to prevent war as we have the last 70 years. Mr. President, please feel free to ignore the NK threat as there is none in the face of America's overwhelming advantage in every respect. America, don't entertain the idea of striking preemptively and you won't give China and Russia any political ammo to shoot at us. If NK goes postal on SK then yeah let loose the hounds of war but till then rest easy as we have countermeasures in place already.

TLDR: If America wants peace it has one option. Better journalism. Stop talking about what NK is capable of and start talking about what NK wants: the status quo. Also include what WE are capable of in defensive terms. Should the bald eagle bat its eyes when the bunny bares its teeth?"

 

I see us striking first and giving the whole world some bullshit story of how we had intelligence they were imminently going to launch a warhead and we prevented a war. Inversely starting a war. Isn't that the way we have done it in the past?

 

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The wheels that where I'm motion when I started this thread are apparently still in motion. And in fact accelerating.

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The wheels that where I'm motion when I started this thread are apparently still in motion. And in fact accelerating.

 

He said "Wheels"

 

:)

 

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I have similar indications but im not buying it. China just adult-smacked the two kids in the playground. If we pre-empt, we war with china. If fat boi pops off, china sits back and we erase nk.

 

 

We now have detente.

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