Aventador...... The Truth

great write-up, it's good to see you back Tommy!

I've driven the Aventador about 40 miles. It's unlike anything else out there. It's radically different from the SV. We could go on and on about the details of those differences and in the end, and to bottom line it, it probably won't get me out of my SV. I think the Aventador is an amazing car all on its own. It has fastest shifts of any car I've driven and shifts so fast it almost hurts. It's like getting rear ended in a parking lot; just enough of a thud to feel like you just got an adjustment at the chiropractor. I think it's a very good car and overall Lamborghini did a terrific job but I don't see a lot of SV buyers making the jump because there is a lack of rawness necessary to get your adrenaline going. I guess the Aventador is like switching to decaf in a way. It's not likely you will go for a drive, park it and still have the adrenaline shakes. It's much easier to drive than the SV so we won't see as many piled up on trees in the first few months. It's much-much quieter inside with far less driver feedback so you have to driving a lot more aggressively to match heart rates between the two cars. Sort of like driving the Veyron which is probably its closest comparison in terms of overall driving experience. In the Veyron I'm still yawing at 120 MPH thinking about texting my order for a pizza.

 

I think for Murc and LP640 owners, they will find it to be the biggest leap in performance. SV owners will probably smile when comparing the two; like seeing a different beautiful woman than the one you're with, but not beautiful enough to race home and draft up divorce papers.

 

Lately we've had a lot of Shelby Cobras show up to our car events. Most of the owners are seasoned drivers with tons of experience. They gravitate towards that raw, dangerous take-no-prisoners experience and the SV/LP640 will more likely entertain that group than the Aventador. Meanwhile the Aventador will be the weapon of choice for those first time exotic owners who are terrified of anything above 80. They could be going 180 and not know it. It will kick the shit out of just about everything else out there at the moment including the 458 which is probably it's closest rival. That and the LFA, which feels incredibly good to drive, even if it does feel sluggish by comparison.

 

Overall, it's like comparing pears and berries. I don't think you could go wrong with either the SV or the Aventador. Is the Aventador a Murcielago killer? Not really. Given the price point of a used LP640, I don't see it as enough of a difference in performance to justify dumping the LP, unless you just want a new faster car for that commute to the office. In the end, when you're out on a run with your buddies, the performance differences aren't going to amount to much in real world group drives. However, it will kick the living shit out of everyone else on that drive if things suddenly get carried away. If you're racing around the twisties, the Aventador will hang on better than anything else (again fewer marriages between Aventadors and trees) and it's not easy to upset- similar to the 458 and LFA in that regard. Fit and finish is good, but not yet perfect. I did see some body seams that are not yet there, but close. I'm tossing that one to new production. Bitch if your Aventador isn't perfect.

 

Bottom line, it's just a different car entirely, deserving of respect, well executed in every way. I just got back from Monterey so I'm burnt out on cars. Lexus gave me a LS600hL to drive for a few days and that was damn interesting. I get it now- some "Hybrids" have almost nothing to do with environmental considerations and everything to do with the state of technology. BTW, the LFA is way cooler than I first thought. Go drive one.

 

About time you showed up. Good to talk to you this past weekend.

Lots of good info in this thread!

What a way to come back Tommy.

 

Thanks for pushing the "raw" driving experience a little more in the mainstream. Feels like being in a vacuum sometimes.

Thanks Tommy - great to see you here again!

 

The TOMMY back in the fold! Welcome back TJ!

Thanks everyone! Really nice to feel welcome.

When I saw 7 read about the Sesto elemento I got really excited, finally a modern Countach! Less than a ton in weight and looks that would appeal to Batman.

Later on I heard about an all new V12 and really began drooling.....

 

and then came the Aventador,

1575kg? wtf happened to all that carbonfibre tech? my CT is lighter!

To be honest, it sounds like someone bottled it...

When I saw 7 read about the Sesto elemento I got really excited, finally a modern Countach! Less than a ton in weight and looks that would appeal to Batman.

Later on I heard about an all new V12 and really began drooling.....

 

and then came the Aventador,

1575kg? wtf happened to all that carbonfibre tech? my CT is lighter!

To be honest, it sounds like someone bottled it...

 

That Sesto also cost 2 million to make.

 

The Countach lacks the amenities the LP700 lacks, but is light years ahead in performance. It's give and take. Wait until an SV of the LP-700 comes out.

Great stuff guys. Really enjoying the real world reports.

My two cents are that the AV is performancewise better than the sv but the sv has more character than the av. But of course since they all trace back to the ct, the av and the sv are merely reflecting the change of times. Of course, the av is the base model which normally should compare to the normal lp and not the sv. And if you compare that, it is night and day between the lp and the av. Only when you have an avsv compared to an sv will you know the difference.

Great real world reviews. Thanks for chipping in, TJ. Would you care making a full LF-A review? It seems that nobody took the time to do such a thing so far (aside from Ryan Woon on supraforums, and that was a WHILE ago) and I'm really curious about the car. Thanks.

Okay- I'll write this about four cars because they have such similarities, not in price so much but how they feel. I had a chance to spend a lot of time driving the F458 about three weeks ago. I'm guessing I drove about 40 miles or so, similar to the Aventador. I drove the LFA back in March down at Infineon where I could drive the car more aggressively. I've also driven the Bugatti Grand Sport about the same distance. All three cars are very closely match in terms of operational smoothness. The LFA is not the fastest of the three but it is a very serious car and if anyone's read my posts from its first arrival, I was anything but a fan, even though I'm on my fifth or sixth Lexus. I just realized that there probably aren't a lot of guys who've driven both the Avendator and the LFA.

 

The LFA is very different from anything Italian because the seating position is far more vertical than the others and it's the only front engine car of the bunch. Lexus has paid so much attention to tiny details that those small features alone make it cool and make it interesting, even though the looks don't wow me, but it does look better in person. It doesn't shift as fast or as smooth as the F458 or Veyron, but it does have nicer gear transitions than the Avendator even though the Aventador has far more power. The Veyron feels like an extremely powerful LFA and has more in common with that car than the other two in terms of overall feedback to the driver.

 

I can easily upset the SV and it actually takes skill to drive well which is why I love it. The SV's true strong point is it's high speed handling. I've driven my SV for very long stretches of remote completely empty roads at well past 150, where I sustained those speeds for minutes at a time rather than a few seconds and it's a wonderful experience. I'd feel less comfortable doing that same thing in the LFA, however there is nothing unstable about the LFA. In fact, I had difficulty upsetting the car on the track. I'd feel even less comfortable in the 458 at high speed. I shifted the LFA in corners, did all the wrong things intentionally, and the car just remained very stable no matter what. Pile up an LFA and natural selection should have nabbed you before you had the money to buy one in the first place.

 

The LFA has the head position of the driver in the very center of the car and it does seem to make a difference in how you relate to the car when driving. You do feel connected to the car. The fit and finish of production cars is far superior to anything I've seen and I'd put it on par with the Veyron. I guess if I had to describe the LFA, I think it's like buying a really good watch. It's just a different fine watch so no point in arguing which is better as it's all a matter of lifestyle. The more you dig into the LFA's bits and pieces, the more you see where all the R&D dollars were spent. They shelled out huge dollars on tiny details- almost to the point of obsession which is why I've added the Veyron which is rather similar in that regard. When it comes to driving experience, all four cars lack rawness, but again I'm coming from an SV.

 

The Aventatod feels like the biggest bruit of the four unless you're looking at the gauges, then the Veyron hands down. The Veyron has absolutely no feel to it's sheer muscle until you're above 40-60 where it really flies- but again, it's so well mannered that you can't really tell. You can't beat the sounds of the Veyron's waste gates and other strange noises, especially with the top off on the Grand Sport. It's extremely cool! The LFA has absolutely perfect fit and finish. I do mean perfect. The paint alone is perfect. Last place in that arena so far goes to Lamborghini, but I'm still looking at early samples, so I know that will come up.

 

The 458 is damn near a perfect car in all respects and the market demand is reflecting that. It looks good in person, it's a nice driver in all conditions, and it's smooth as can be. I raced through the gears on an onramp and it was extremely fast, but super smooth at the same time so not much of a kick compared to the Aventador. The Aventador hits you in the back of the head with each shift in Corsa mode like a passenger smacking you in the back of the head with a pillow to drive faster. The Aventador will raise your adrenaline the most of the four cars. The LFA may be the least, but it's still a wonderful car to drive.

 

I've been looking at where LFAs are ending up and to my surprise many buyers are in areas of the US that do not have traditional exotic dealers. This makes sense for someone who wants to show up at any Lexus dealer for service, something the car will need very little of anyway. They took the approach that the car should be perfect the first time and I don't think you will see too many LFAs broken down by the side of the road. If I have one frustration with Lamborghini is their willingness to let owners be an involuntary part of R&D. I for one prefer the car to be right the first time, but that's just me. The LAST call I want to make is over a warranty issue.

 

What shies me away from the LFA the most is that Lexus doesn't seem to have any plans to sustain the LFA culture after the cars are sold and that by itself will harm resale. I've asked several of their marketing guys what the plans are and I get really vapid answers. You have to sustain the culture to keep the car's value alive and the marketing guys I met give me the deer in the headlights look. It otherwise ends up as another NSX. I think if you were new to exotics, were terrified about driving them, needed lots of air bags, were concerned about care and feeding, didn't want to kill yourself in the first week but still keep up with the pack, the LFA is a terrific weapon of choice. It will hang in there on the track with the best of them and it sounds terrific. It's a very cool car.

 

My image of an LFA driver so far is an inexperienced exotic owner. That will change over time, but I've read some of their posts about their expectations about ownership and I slap my forehead in disbelief. I know of very few owned by guys who have extensive exotic experience. Most LFA buyers are completely new to exotics and the few I've spoken with have misconceptions about exotic ownership so who knows if they will sustain their love for the car. The age demographic seems to be older than the Italian stuff.

 

Lexus is a terrific company and the people truly stand behind their product. One of my biggest gripes about Lamborghini is how they can be a challenge when it comes to factory support. We have terrific mechanics in our area, but wow I've had some challenges over little things. That would never happen with Lexus, or Bugatti. As for the 458, I hear over and over how Ferrari routinely challenges warranty claims. I've heard it so many times, that I tend to believe it's true.

 

All of these companies make the same mistakes over and over again- they all assume they can market, sell, support these exotics exactly like they do mainstream brands only to end up wondering what went wrong. Ferrari is the only one who has it sorted out enough to sustain the brand- then again they get culture.

 

I think it will take a while for the Aventador to prove itself in real world use. There are too many new systems in the car that still have to be proven in owners hands. I think Lamborghini is improving and I think they are serious about rebuilding the brand from the customer base up so I have a lot of faith in some of the new management team's commitment to getting it right. Are they there yet? Nope. They discharged customer culture in 2008-forward like it was fodder to the brand and those chickens never came home in the first place. Think of all the people we all know who have left Lamborghini never to return. I don't think that will happen as often with the LFA, where customers will generally remain happy unless values really tank. I think a large percentage of LFAs will be dealership-owner owned so who knows how that will impact resale in the coming year.

 

We already have about a dozen F458s in the Seattle area and that will reach a saturation point sooner than later. Collectors I know are staying away from the car for that reason. It's selling well because it's a damn good car and the Gallardo is way, way too yesterday for the market. The bottom line is that the LFA has earned my respect over time. You couldn't find a better bunch of people behind the brand. Paul Williamsen who's been with Toyota a long time is a true car guy in every sense and is one of the most interesting car people I've ever met.

 

I made the calls that led to the LFA ending up at Concorso at the last minute. I think everyone here should welcome it on drives and get to know the car. It's worthy of respect. Hope this helps. I'm hosting Bugatti up here this weekend so that will be fun.

Its good to see you around again tommy. But one thing I have to say, is the 458 must have already had a serious paint correction because ive seen countless reports and gripes from owners across the boards talking about how bad Ferrari's paint is from the factory (i believe Allan even commented on it before Lucci fixed his). Regardless, fantastic write up.

Lexus has paid so much attention to tiny details that those small features alone make it cool and make it interesting, even though the looks don't wow me, but it does look better in person.

 

A testament to that statement are the "Lexus" engraved allen screws on the dash and instrument panels. Stuff like this, while cool is over the top and avoidable, which in combination with other efforts could reduce the price to a respectable level, thus making the car that much more obtainable.

Glad to see you back on LP, Tommy.

 

I don't think you'll give up your SV for this!

Absolutely fantastic write-up Tommy. This is the reason why I frequent forums: value added from the members. You went above and beyond what I was expecting for a write-up on the LFA. I was always curious about the LF-A. I think it sounds amazing...one of the best engine notes I've ever heard. The looks are...different...not sold on them...but I think the car deserves, as you mentionned, its fair amount of attention. Everybody that drove it thinks it's a great car. It's just too bad it fell between the cracks, between all the new supercars out there of the last few years. Anyhow, thank you very much for taking the time to write about it.

Good to have you back Tommy..Nice write up too....Evo has done an article on the LF-A with a 599...when they are parked side by side it's amazing how similar they look...

 

Outstanding write up Tommy!!

 

 

Thanks for the kind words everyone. They mean a lot.

 

I've got a bit more to add about the Veyron given that I drove it again just one week after the Aventador. I just hosted Bugatti last weekend and had the Grand Sport in my garage for three days. I got enough seat time in the car to have a very good feel for the car under a very wide swath of road conditions. I'd now say there is a larger gap in feel between it and the Aventador. The key difference is how the power comes up. The Aventador is instantaneous at all RPMs while the turbo lag with the Veyron seems even more pronounced than I remembered from last year. I found myself having trouble driving the Veyron well in the curvy stuff when compared to the Aventador. The Aventador actually felt just as smooth on the road with more feedback to the driver. While nothing beats the long pull of the Veyron, the Aventador will feel very good at higher speeds. I was so glad to get back into my SV after the Veyron. It felt wonderful all over again and you just can't beat the sound.

 

I also forgot to add that the factory is not going to allow any exhaust modifications of the Aventador in any form and it's definitely quiet by comparison to everything but the Veyron. It's the one thing I love about the SV. I let the F1 driver traveling with the Veyron to do a hot lap with my car around the 5.5 mile loop we were using and I could hear that glorious high RPM sound the entire way around, when the Veyron by compariso would go silent less than a mile from where we were standing.

 

I've also said this before. The LP640 didn't feel like it was broken in until I was just over 5,000 miles when it felt like it came to life for the first time. This was reflected in ever-improving dyno results. The same holds true for the SV. Lamborghinis just seem to improve with miles.

 

What does that mean that Lamborghini won't allow exhaust modifications? Somebody's gonna do it. They're gonna take that person's warranty away or what?

What does that mean that Lamborghini won't allow exhaust modifications? Somebody's gonna do it. They're gonna take that person's warranty away or what?

 

That's exactly right according to the factory. From what I understand, they tied the exhaust back into the ECU. Someone can correct me on how it's all tied in. Any modifications and the warranty is toast. It's a very unusual looking exhaust. I'm sure someone here has photos of the engine and frame.

That's exactly right according to the factory. From what I understand, they tied the exhaust back into the ECU. Someone can correct me on how it's all tied in. Any modifications and the warranty is toast. It's a very unusual looking exhaust. I'm sure someone here has photos of the engine and frame.

 

I've heard the exact same thing. As Tommy said, the exhaust has been tied back into the ECU with newly added sensors that will put the car into limp mode if anything is modified.

This is how Roy had described it on another board:

"Part of the CAFE rules "Required" the secondary "cats" in-corperated with the muffler enclouser, they no longer are seperate, put act as a whole one piece unit with the exhaust "restrictive" sound control muffler system. They are further completely tied into the ECU and the engine managment system. They are even furthered "guarded" from removal by the management system, with them out they will immediately cause a fault and a non running motor.

 

I am sure there will be a way and some one that will come up with it, but then again maybe not due to the cost it will take and the research...one thing for sure, it wont be cheap..and I am sure it will have issues at strict emission control sites at registration time in most States."

 

Im sure UR, Heffener and others are all over this already.