9 year old girl accidentally kills shooting instructor

parents of the girl are idiots , instructor is an idiot. I don't think kids under 14 should touch a gun. A BB gun is fine. What would be the purpose for a child to fire a gun? I can understand a young man hunting 13-14 and up. way to young IMO.

10s of thousands of boys, younger than her, are out in the woods right now squirrel hunting with their dad's... I don't think a lot of city people understand how common kids shooting (with no incidents) is....

10s of thousands of boys, younger than her, are out in the woods right now squirrel hunting with their dad's... I don't think a lot of city people understand how common kids shooting (with no incidents) is....

i started goose hunting at 12 and deer at 13. (and i think i would have started deer earlier but i talked too much and would never keep quiet)

 

Just like everyone else said, I started with a .22 bolt action rifle (at about 7-8ish) till i had a handle on that, then got a 10/22 and from there to all other manner of fun stuff. But I always was berated on the rules of handling firearms and safety alike. Hell i took a NRA gun saftey course at 10 and 11 years old. Its a completely different ideal from people living in a city to living in a rural area.

 

Im honestly more scared to take an older friend (late 20's)shooting, who has never held or shot a gun before instead of a younger kid. older people tend to have a "I'm old enough to know whats right and wrong" mentality and kids just are a blank book.

i started goose hunting at 12 and deer at 13. (and i think i would have started deer earlier but i talked too much and would never keep quiet)

 

Just like everyone else said, I started with a .22 bolt action rifle (at about 7-8ish) till i had a handle on that, then got a 10/22 and from there to all other manner of fun stuff. But I always was berated on the rules of handling firearms and safety alike. Its a completely different ideal from people living in a city to living in a rural area.

 

Im honestly more scared to take an older friend (late 20's)shooting, who has never held or shot a gun before instead of a younger kid. older people tend to have a "I'm old enough to know whats right and wrong" mentality and kids just are a blank book.

 

 

That is the exact progression I took, bolt action 22, the a semi auto 22, and then a snub nose .38. I can't even remember how young I was but I do remember getting a 20 gauge auto for my 12th birthday.

 

I have great memories of shooting with my dad as a kid, and to this day in my early 30s I still love to get out with my dad and as Hannibal said in the gun thread, "turn money into noise."

 

Learning to shoot also served a more important function, it eliminated the curiosity about guns that some kids have because they weren't some cool thing only adults got to handle.

Learning to shoot also served a more important function, it eliminated the curiosity about guns that some kids have because they weren't some cool thing only adults got to handle.

 

I can remember a few friends and I going out shooting with my dad and uncles and he commented on how "desensitized" we where to the guns and not afraid of them because we knew how to handle them safely. It no longer had the "mystique" to it they where tools to use, and tools to respect much like a table saw, that's it (granted they where fun tools).

I don't blame the parents, my grandfather taught me to shoot with a .22 bolt action rifle that he got when he was a kid. I still have the gun and it's awesome. I was also in high school when I got my .270 and finally did some hunting with something that has some balls.

 

I recall that an ATF agent was killed when a gun they were testing went full auto (unexpectedly), which is why they don't test with full mags. Maybe you don't give the crazy gun to a 9yr old girl in the first place, but also limiting the rounds in the mag would be a solid backup plan.

 

And Roman is spot on, if you cut off the states lining the east and west cost of the this country, just about everywhere in the middle kids learn to shoot and hunt in the single digit age range. But obviously it's with an appropriate weapon.

 

I think that 13yr old girl in the video would embarrass most of us at the range, myself most definitely included. She fcuking rocks!

I started off shooting a .22 cal Ruger when I was in the Boy Scouts at age 9. My kids will all learn how to shoot. I will actually take classes with them as I am sure I could use a refresher course and it would be something that we do together. I think it is important to know how to use and handle a firearm safely and effectively.

Instructor should have at a very minimum had his hands essentially in control of the gun just in case something like that happened.

If you are raised by people that have served, hunted, and used guns their whole life it is a necessity to teach kids to use and respect them. Better to address it than to leave curiosity and the tendency to imitate as wild cards.

 

I started shooting a Beretta 9mm (with my dad helping me hold it to start) and semi auto .22 at seven or eight. By the time I was twelve I could handle everything up to a .45 magnum (albeit with some palm bruising). I was taught by family members that were certified instructors, Eagle Scouts, and most had served. If you learn the basics of handling, safety, maintenance, and range etiquette at a young age it will stick with you. They were also smart enough to keep all full auto guns off limits until we were around fifteen.

 

The worst thing you can do is have guns around and leave it a taboo and not teach your kids anything. You may have your guns locked up but their friend's dad might not. Children are devious (I know I was), they will find a way to get in trouble. A few of my friends were at a kid's house when they were fourteen and he pulled out his mom's little .22 Derringer to show off. He had found where it was hidden. He ejected the clip, as a joke put it up to his head, pulled the trigger, round in the chamber, bye bye. If he had been taught anything, or his parents were responsible and kept it locked up, it would have never happened.

 

In my opinion it is much better to be raised young with the view of a gun as a tool than to get into it later and think of them as toys. I refuse to even shoot with half of the guys I know because of the lack of training I have observed. My best friend gave up hunting with the same group after he was flashed (loaded gun swung around/pointed at him while stalking or walking) a couple times. It has been my observation that only about half of the people that own guns truly know how to use them around others in a manner that leaves me comfortable.

That's the wrong attitude too...

 

 

My son can shoot a gun... But it started with years of me drilling the rules into him before he touched one... And then a .22 rifle. That's as far as he's gotten.

 

There is no right or wrong attitude, my kids do not need guns and that's my choice to make as their father, I don't judge you for giving access to guns to your son because that's your prerogative and your right as a father to decide for him, I decide what's best for my own children until they reach adulthood, when they get there the decision becomes theirs.

As Fortis said, it's up to the parents until a kid is an adult. I like guns, I feel everyone has a right to protect themselves and you should start at a yound age to become proficient and develope a safe understanding. There have been incidents where ppl have given their adult GF a DE .50 full clip and they ended double tapping and blowing their brains out. It is up to the experienced to teach the inexperienced. From the video it looks like this was at one of these rent a gun places....much different then as Roman mentioned where you take your kid out, have them set up, teach safe behaviour, start small, become proficient, move up. You wouldn't take your 10 yo old or 90lbs gf dirtbiking for the first time on a CR500.... or teach them to drive in an Ariel Atom....... all boils down to common sense, and inevidtably sometimes no matter all the precautions a person takes accidents will happen.

As Fortis said, it's up to the parents until a kid is an adult. I like guns, I feel everyone has a right to protect themselves and you should start at a yound age to become proficient and develope a safe understanding. There have been incidents where ppl have given their adult GF a DE .50 full clip and they ended double tapping and blowing their brains out. It is up to the experienced to teach the inexperienced. From the video it looks like this was at one of these rent a gun places....much different then as Roman mentioned where you take your kid out, have them set up, teach safe behaviour, start small, become proficient, move up. You wouldn't take your 10 yo old or 90lbs gf dirtbiking for the first time on a CR500.... or teach them to drive in an Ariel Atom....... all boils down to common sense, and inevidtably sometimes no matter all the precautions a person takes accidents will happen.

 

 

Common sense just isn't so common anymore.

Hence warning labeles on everything. Accountability is dead everyone wants to blame someone else....... duh Im gonna sue McDonalds for getting fat from eating a 1/4 pounder everyday for lunch....or duh I'm gonna sue starbucks because when I was driving and trying to text and put on my makeup I spilled coffee all over myself and got a burn....... ppl just suck

i do honestly believe children of 9 years should not shoot. period

i am not an against weapons hippy flower guy of any sort, SO FAR from it!

 

but i think there should be a rule that allows them to shoot only from a certain age (let's say 14-16? ) and with the aid of a professional etc

 

i fully agree the instructor did bad mistakes but at the same time the parents should have not allowed her to take this kind of weapon. that, as Eric said, needs experience to be used properly.

 

if a child of 10 would have been at a race track and instructor says he is good to ride a GSXR1300 would you let him ride one?

i think not, even with experience and skill etc... he is just not big and strong enough and not really old enough.

 

 

i do honestly believe children of 9 years should not shoot. period

i am not an against weapons hippy flower guy of any sort, SO FAR from it!

 

but i think there should be a rule that allows them to shoot only from a certain age (let's say 14-16? ) and with the aid of a professional etc

 

i fully agree the instructor did bad mistakes but at the same time the parents should have not allowed her to take this kind of weapon. that, as Eric said, needs experience to be used properly.

 

if a child of 10 would have been at a race track and instructor says he is good to ride a GSXR1300 would you let him ride one?

i think not, even with experience and skill etc... he is just not big and strong enough and not really old enough.

 

Difference though is an instructor cannot ride that GSXR1300 with the child. They can however hold the gun with them while they shoot it. So IMO I think children shooting is fine. They just need proper instruction, proper weapon, and a proper controlled environment. Same with motorsports. They have go-karts for kids starting very young, but again, appropriate vehicle, training, and controlled environment.

Being my best friend was shot in the head at 14yo when we were kids, I have a hard time with all of this. I as a parent would never put either of my kids in that situation. Even if an instructor said it was fine, I would NEVER let my kids handle that specific type of gun.

 

However, if these parents were just stopping for a burger and paid the money for their child to shoot a gun like it was a toy at a festival trying to knock off the pop cans from the good ole rocking chair, it's hard to blame them.. This instructor sadly found out the hard way guns don't kill people. A 9 yo with the opportunity to eject multipl little lead projectiles that can fly out of a barrel at XXXX meters per second do..

This instructor sadly found out the hard way guns don't kill people. A 9 yo with the opportunity to eject multipl little lead projectiles that can fly out of a barrel at XXXX meters per second do..

 

Guns don't kill people. Stupidity and evil does. Far more children die drowning each year in swimming pools and bath tubs then from guns, for example. Again, proper vigilance and knowledge is what is required. This child should not have had an Uzi to fire with no physical guidance from the instructor and most definitely not an Uzi with multiple rounds in it.

 

I agree though on not trusting the instructor. I'd first have to know of their credentials at least, and even then, watch what they were doing.

Because 100's of millions of kids swim, that's why more drown rather than accidentally blowing people's heads off.

 

I don't dislike guns, I have nothing against people owning them if the law permits it but what scares me is the relax attitude of some people towards them, they are lethal objects if handled incorrectly by inexperienced and there are so many idiots on this planet I wouldn't even trust with handling a hot towel, when I think of them being able to carry a gun I am really concerned.

 

 

 

Next week kiddies we're going to try bomb making!

 

Stick to Barbies and coloring books, maybe wait until she's 15 or so for guns. I understand the need to know how to handle a weapon if you're going to have them in the house, but shit, an auto?? C'mon

 

 

I take my kids shooting with me now to expose them to it so that when the time is right they can be safe and because they enjoy coming along. Since I don't see this as doing anything illegal or amoral I don't have a problem including them in the activity. I also have firearms in the house and want them to have every ounce of respect the firearms command drilled into them from as early of an age as possible.

 

That's the wrong attitude too...

 

 

My son can shoot a gun... But it started with years of me drilling the rules into him before he touched one... And then a .22 rifle. That's as far as he's gotten.

 

BINGO!

 

I'm starting mine on one of these next summer. http://www.crickett.com/crickett_22_LR.php

I was firing my dads 1911 .45 at 8 or 9 with him supporting my arms right behind me of course. Firing an Uzi with crazy recoil obviously isn't the smartest idea for a 9 year old kid as this instructor proved, but there's nothing wrong with getting children familiar with firearm safety and proper technique from an early age.

 

FANTASTIC GUN! My buddy has a 10 year old who has been out hunting with him but will be able to actually pull the trigger next year. We went out shooting and his son had one of these guns and it is very safe, easy to use and understand as well as being accurate. I've actually been looking at getting on for my wife since she never really has been shooting and wants to cautiously get in to it.

 

 

parents of the girl are idiots , instructor is an idiot. I don't think kids under 14 should touch a gun. A BB gun is fine. What would be the purpose for a child to fire a gun? I can understand a young man hunting 13-14 and up. way to young IMO.

 

In PA you can go in the woods at any age and you can start hunting at 11. Half the kids around here are probably a better shot then me because they've been doing it for far long and under the auspices of "If I don't make the shot I don't eat."

 

The worst thing you can do is have guns around and leave it a taboo and not teach your kids anything. You may have your guns locked up but their friend's dad might not. Children are devious (I know I was), they will find a way to get in trouble. A few of my friends were at a kid's house when they were fourteen and he pulled out his mom's little .22 Derringer to show off. He had found where it was hidden. He ejected the clip, as a joke put it up to his head, pulled the trigger, round in the chamber, bye bye. If he had been taught anything, or his parents were responsible and kept it locked up, it would have never happened.

 

BINGO! Half the reason I teach my kids isn't for my guns but for your guns. That way if they are at a friends house and he pulls out his dad's guns to show off my kids know how to react and handle the situation. I also have my guns locked up and have no problem going over the situation with any parents that visit (all of our friends shoot/have guns and the boys are still a little young to be having play dates that involve random kids from school being dropped off to hang out).

Because 100's of millions of kids swim, that's why more drown rather than accidentally blowing people's heads off.

 

I don't dislike guns, I have nothing against people owning them if the law permits it but what scares me is the relax attitude of some people towards them, they are lethal objects if handled incorrectly by inexperienced and there are so many idiots on this planet I wouldn't even trust with handling a hot towel, when I think of them being able to carry a gun I am really concerned.

 

That is why it is good to have a culture that is familiar with guns instead of one where guns are seen as scary and esoteric. I understand what you mean about people handling dangerous objects, but that could also be said about people driving cars. People get into their cars everyday with zero concern for all the idiots on the road and the number of people killed in motor vehicle accidents every year. Yes we have driver licensing, but pretty much anyone can get one of those. Non-chalance about guns is similar to non-chalance about cars. You drive safely and not much to worry about. Same with guns.

 

But you cannot just carry guns everywhere and anywhere in the U.S. It highly depends on the state and city and so forth. And most places people carry concealed.

to simplify this whole scenario IMO.. Children are prone to having a "learning Curve" whether its swimming in a rough ocean or crossing the street... they need experience in certain situations.. shooting a weapon that has no room for mistake at such a young age is not going to happen with my 10 and 14 year old. when they are adults and fully UNDERSTAND life and death then they can choose to fire a weapon.

 

bottom line is I have told my kids 100 times to lock the door or watch when you cross the street and guess what they still make a mistake... thats where experience comes in to place as an adult.

This is one of the biggest differences between the US and europe.

I understand that leting a kid shoot can be safe if he/she has been instructed properly and had sufficient training.

But I just don´t get the reason why a kid should have a gun in his hand??

In a safe first world country(I could understand it in a war zone) why is there a need for a 9 year old to shoot with a gun?? What does the the kid gain from that(actually I would argue that morally it is a rather bad thing but that´s taking it too far probably)?

Just WHY??

Again completely different mind sets reagarding this one between the US and Europe.

That is why it is good to have a culture that is familiar with guns instead of one where guns are seen as scary and esoteric. I understand what you mean about people handling dangerous objects, but that could also be said about people driving cars. People get into their cars everyday with zero concern for all the idiots on the road and the number of people killed in motor vehicle accidents every year. Yes we have driver licensing, but pretty much anyone can get one of those. Non-chalance about guns is similar to non-chalance about cars. You drive safely and not much to worry about. Same with guns.

 

But you cannot just carry guns everywhere and anywhere in the U.S. It highly depends on the state and city and so forth. And most places people carry concealed.

 

While you are at it let your 9 year old handle chainsaws, angle grinders, jackhammers, just make sure you get him/her a VERY good instructor and teach them about safety, come back and let me know how that works out for you.

 

This exchange is pointless because you are getting defensive about guns and you use all sorts of comparisons to justify you POV, nobody is trying to stop you from having guns I am simply telling you they are dangerous tools in the hands of children, idiots and inexperienced, also please don't tell me about kids under 10, I have 3 of my own and more than 8 in my family and I wouldn't trust any of them with weapons, if you will trust yours when they come along knock yourself out.

 

 

 

 

While you are at it let your 9 year old handle chainsaws, angle grinders, jackhammers, just make sure you get him/her a VERY good instructor and teach them about safety, come back and let me know how that works out for you.

 

This exchange is pointless because you are getting defensive about guns and you use all sorts of comparisons to justify you POV, nobody is trying to stop you from having guns I am simply telling you they are dangerous tools in the hands of children, idiots and inexperienced, also please don't tell me about kids under 10, I have 3 of my own and more than 8 in my family and I wouldn't trust any of them with weapons, if you will trust yours when they come along knock yourself out.

 

 

Sorry... But where I live now, there are thousands of kids, YOUNG kids, using all sorts of "dangerous" (capable of chopping you into a million pieces in a few seconds) farm equipment from the time they're old enough to walk... Chain saws? Angle grinders? Ha!!! There are kids who do that shit day in and day out... The neighbor kids have been driving pick up trucks, bob cats, and tractors for YEARS... And they're like twelve now? You think a gun is dangerous? See what happens when a tractor flips onto somebody.... See what a combine does to flesh... But,the kids learn how to do it... Safely, and they're fine. And nobody thinks twice about it...

This is one of the biggest differences between the US and europe.

I understand that leting a kid shoot can be safe if he/she has been instructed properly and had sufficient training.

But I just don´t get the reason why a kid should have a gun in his hand??

In a safe first world country(I could understand it in a war zone) why is there a need for a 9 year old to shoot with a gun?? What does the the kid gain from that(actually I would argue that morally it is a rather bad thing but that´s taking it too far probably)?

Just WHY??

Again completely different mind sets reagarding this one between the US and Europe.

 

 

Why would you let a kid ride a bicycle? In a first world country... They can ride in a car where they're safer?

 

So they learn how to ride a bike, or shoot, both of which are fun but can be dangerous (in fact dozens of more children will be killed riding bicycles than will die in supervised gun accidents every year...)

 

You'll say, "but riding bikes is what kids do for fun!!!!" For hundreds of years, kids started shooting when they were old enough to pick up a rifle... It was a natural part of childhood... Kids haven't gotten dumber....

 

 

In the US, 3000 people under the age of 18 are injured by firearms accidents each year...

 

 

40,000 children UNDER the age of 5 are injured in bicycle accidents... It's another 265,000 if you count kids up to 14.

Kids haven't gotten dumber....

 

After witnessing my 4 year old shoot himself in the ear canal with a water gun this morning I am not sure I agree with this 100%.