So I know we're not supposed to talk politics - Presidential Election - Poll

That´s actually one of the most intelligent statements I´ve seen from you.

 

Of course you can´t just fcuk over people and "stomp their heads" if you have to deal with them ever again(unless you are in a position of absolut power, think kid and parents which is seldomly the case in the political world).

Anyone who tells you otherwise(here, or anywhere else in life) has either no clue or is just lying to himself/stroking his ego about this whole trump thing.

 

But don´t take my word for it.

Go try it out in real life.

Or just go read some books some CIA/FBI hostage negotiation tactics, or harvard business tactics if you want some more theory first.

 

There's a fine line, IMO. On the one hand, you can't be a wimp when dealing with these countries, you have to deal from a position of strength. On the other hand, one can overdo it as well.

"Yeah trump gonna show em and build a wall with tanks and shit!"

 

 

/Idiots.

Lips reading at inauguration:

 

https://www.facebook.com/AmericanStrong/vid...hc_ref=NEWSFEED

...

That´s actually one of the most intelligent statements I´ve seen from you.

 

Of course you can´t just fcuk over people and "stomp their heads" if you have to deal with them ever again(unless you are in a position of absolut power, think kid and parents which is seldomly the case in the political world).

Anyone who tells you otherwise(here, or anywhere else in life) has either no clue or is just lying to himself/stroking his ego about this whole trump thing.

 

But don´t take my word for it.

Go try it out in real life.

Or just go read some books some CIA/FBI hostage negotiation tactics, or harvard business tactics if you want some more theory first.

 

Terrible analogies... Hostage negotiators negotiate from a position of weakness. They have to. The hostage taker holds all the cards. The strategy is "tell him whatever he wants to hear/ give him whatever he wants" that prevents him from killing ALL of the hostages. Which is the position the negotiator goes in with... Getting ONE hostage out alive is a win, because for all intents and purposes, they've entered Schrodingers box. They're all dead, even though some may still be alive for the time being... Saving ANY is a victory.

 

Thats NOT the situation here. AMERICA is the hostage taker, in terms of that analogy... WE HOLD ALL THE CARDS... Mexico needs US far more than we need them, and any trade war (or any other kind of fight for that matter) THEY fcuking LOSE. Like it or not, we are still the big dog on the block... And we've elected the guy who is the equivalent to taking off the leash. Don't fcuking piss us off any more. Cause we're tired of it.

 

 

I asked a question of Pshiko earlier... And I havent gotten an answer... Maybe youd like a swing at it? (its easy to find... Im the guy with the dog avatar and Ive got very few comments in this thread.)

 

 

 

You guys have been right about everything related to the election and presidency up to this point so I'm sure you're dead on with these points as well.

I think the worlds just a little shellshocked because they've seen a giant do nothing pussy leading the country for the last eight years and now there's somebody out there doing exactly what he said he would do and exactly what a huge portion of this country elected him to do and not pussyfooting about it and everyone is freaking out

 

 

With all due respect... We've had a do nothing/pussy leading this country for the last 100 years.

 

Ive been working on a thesis that, contrary to popular belief, The United States lost World War 2.

Its about time USA walks and acts like the big dog. Everyone in manufacturing is hyped and excited. Looking at a large CNC machine auction last week, machines sold for top dollar compared to pennies on the dollar i've seen in 2009. Shit some vices and steel cabinets sold for over retail !!

You're going to see this video from your liberal friends... And I'm going to teach you how to respond, point by point...

 

 

1. It would have to stretch over 2000 miles of rough terrain... mountains... rivers...

 

No... It doesnt have too sretch over 2000 miles. Because much of the border is "rough terrain". Mountains. And rivers. And impassable by ordinary humans on foot carrying their own supplies. I live in indiana... right near kentucky. Ever looked at a map? At how jagged the state line is? Yeah... Because 200 years ago people knew how to draw boundries along naturally difficult to pass terrain... In this case- the Ohio river... Our international border is no different.

 

2. It would pass through villages and peoples homes:

 

Legally the answer is - "tough shit" Eminent Domain. Liberal use it all the time when they want to do one of their bullshit pet projects...

 

3. Its too expensive- 25 billion dollars:

 

NOW you care about costs? California's "high speed" rail to nowhere, that gives liberals spontaneous orgasms when they dream of it, is set to cost $70 billion. So fine... We'll build a "high speed" rail line the length of the border, make the cars 30 feet tall, and buy enough of them to to line them up the entire length of the track... Happy now?

 

 

4. It would be the same as NASAs annual budget.

 

Great. We'll take it from there and get something of value from NASA for the first time in a decade.

 

5. The cost of staffing and maintaining it:

 

Jobs baby... Liberals love make work programs and federal employees... Except when they actually do something we need.

 

6. It will "never stop illegal immigration":

 

This is a canard... The idea that we cant stop ALL of something illegal is no reason we shouldnt stop some of it.

 

7. Airplanes:

 

Yes a lot of people come here and overstay their visas... The wall makes it so they cant come BACK after we deport them for that. And... There are reasons some people sneak across the border. They cant afford plane tickets or get visas because they are criminals... AND THATS who we want to keep out.

Amen Father Roman!

Don't forget to also point out that when you make arguments that make no or little sense you can always say others did/said worse, therefore tough shit, I'm still right... and... fcuk you. And don't make any attempts to put things in context or understand nuance, that's for pussies who pretend like they care, and we know nobody cares, we're all just a bunch of apes throwing turd at each other... It's us vs them, remember, them being anyone who's not us. We are smarter than them, better than them, stronger than them, we're the shit. Our tribe kicks their tribe's ass, we own them. And that's all that matters at the end, just ask evolution. Go us! fcuk everyone else.

Don't forget to also point out that when you make arguments that make no or little sense you can always say others did/said worse, therefore tough shit, I'm still right... and... fcuk you. And don't make any attempts to put things in context or understand nuance, that's for pussies who pretend like they care, and we know nobody cares, we're all just a bunch of apes throwing turd at each other... It's us vs them, remember, them being anyone who's not us. We are smarter than them, better than them, stronger than them, we're the shit. Our tribe kicks their tribe's ass, we own them. And that's all that matters at the end, just ask evolution. Go us! fcuk everyone else.

 

 

You done?

You're going to see this video from your liberal friends... And I'm going to teach you how to respond, point by point...

 

I have a few disagreements with your points Roman.

 

2. It would pass through villages and peoples homes:

 

Legally the answer is - "tough shit" Eminent Domain. Liberal use it all the time when they want to do one of their bullshit pet projects...

 

That is true, but that shows hypocrisy on the Left, but it doesn't mean conservatives should support it. However, a better argument could be made here (national security), but couldn't they just build the wall around the communities?

 

4. It would be the same as NASAs annual budget.

 

Great. We'll take it from there and get something of value from NASA for the first time in a decade.

 

Well Roman, NASA I would say is one of the few government agencies that actually produces things of value. The modern world literally would not exist if it had not been for NASA and the Space Program. NASA hasn't been able to generate things at the level that it used to because it has such a small budget, but it still engages in R&D that contribute to society. It also engages in a form of contribution that's value can't really be measured economically, which is knowledge about the universe. Their programs with space probes to different planets and new space-based telescopes contribute greatly in that sense. The Hubble Space Telescope really gave us a lot of knowledge.

 

Personally, my response to the argument that, "It would be the same as NASA's annual budget," is that, "NASA's annual budget is rather tiny, so what's the big deal?"

Terrible analogies... Hostage negotiators negotiate from a position of weakness. They have to. The hostage taker holds all the cards. The strategy is "tell him whatever he wants to hear/ give him whatever he wants" that prevents him from killing ALL of the hostages. Which is the position the negotiator goes in with... Getting ONE hostage out alive is a win, because for all intents and purposes, they've entered Schrodingers box. They're all dead, even though some may still be alive for the time being... Saving ANY is a victory.

 

Thats NOT the situation here. AMERICA is the hostage taker, in terms of that analogy... WE HOLD ALL THE CARDS... Mexico needs US far more than we need them, and any trade war (or any other kind of fight for that matter) THEY fcuking LOSE. Like it or not, we are still the big dog on the block... And we've elected the guy who is the equivalent to taking off the leash. Don't fcuking piss us off any more. Cause we're tired of it.

 

 

I asked a question of Pshiko earlier... And I havent gotten an answer... Maybe youd like a swing at it? (its easy to find... Im the guy with the dog avatar and Ive got very few comments in this thread.)

 

 

Thank you Roman, I was taking a day off from this yesterday, the guy compares hostage negotiations with business negotiations then sends Wheels to read some books

 

I get so frustrated when I see people speaking silly things but once an old wise man told me:

 

"Do not get frustrated be thankful for these people otherwise you would have to work much harder to be better than them, this way they are making it very easy for you "

 

Very wise words but at times it's hard not to get frustrated LOL

How come Trump didn't include Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia on the list of countries that he banned immigration from? Also Tunisia has the highest number of jihadists fighting for isis in the middle east. Last I checked saudis inflicted the most pain on the US through terrorism. It seems suspect that he didn't. If he really wanted to keep his word on banning people from high risk countries, Saudi Arabia would be top of the list no? Perhaps he just wants to give the appearance of keeping his word without really being serious about it. Or is there extreme vetting already in place for Saudis in some way?

Many of the contributors to this thread are smart and successful people, but the posts in this thread remind one more of a Facebook status comment-fest than an intellectual debate about issues.

 

With exception of a few exchanges, the debates in this thread contain a large amount of ad hominem and little evidence based, well thought out and considerate responses. Unfortunately Roman, Hovik has a point. Too often I have read posts that do not even attempt to assume the role of "devil's advocate" and your response of "are you done yet?" is an example of exactly what he was pointing out. Debate in this thread has become a competition of attempting to knock the other off of their high horse rather than leveling with the other person, attempting to understand the merits of their arguments and addressing them one by one. Intellectual conversation should deconstruct logic and biases.

 

I would also add that those that address comments like "Don't you know X works in the real world?" with something akin to "Don't you know how successful I am in business? Of course I know how this works" appears childish and thin-skinned.

 

The people of this community are capable of far more fruitful discussion than the bile that is in this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

I have a few disagreements with your points Roman.

 

 

 

That is true, but that shows hypocrisy on the Left, but it doesn't mean conservatives should support it. However, a better argument could be made here (national security), but couldn't they just build the wall around the communities?

 

 

 

Well Roman, NASA I would say is one of the few government agencies that actually produces things of value. The modern world literally would not exist if it had not been for NASA and the Space Program. NASA hasn't been able to generate things at the level that it used to because it has such a small budget, but it still engages in R&D that contribute to society. It also engages in a form of contribution that's value can't really be measured economically, which is knowledge about the universe. Their programs with space probes to different planets and new space-based telescopes contribute greatly in that sense. The Hubble Space Telescope really gave us a lot of knowledge.

 

Personally, my response to the argument that, "It would be the same as NASA's annual budget," is that, "NASA's annual budget is rather tiny, so what's the big deal?"

fcuk off wheels. Everybody recognizes eminent domain.

 

Where in my post did I say I was at all interested in your opinion or help?

 

Stay in your lane. (And these threads are never it)

Many of the contributors to this thread are smart and successful people, but the posts in this thread remind one more of a Facebook status comment-fest than an intellectual debate about issues.

 

With exception of a few exchanges, the debates in this thread contain a large amount of ad hominem and little evidence based, well thought out and considerate responses. Unfortunately Roman, Hovik has a point. Too often I have read posts that do not even attempt to assume the role of "devil's advocate" and your response of "are you done yet?" is an example of exactly what he was pointing out. Debate in this thread has become a competition of attempting to knock the other off of their high horse rather than leveling with the other person, attempting to understand the merits of their arguments and addressing them one by one. Intellectual conversation should deconstruct logic and biases.

 

I would also add that those that address comments like "Don't you know X works in the real world?" with something akin to "Don't you know how successful I am in business? Of course I know how this works" appears childish and thin-skinned.

 

The people of this community are capable of far more fruitful discussion than the bile that is in this thread.

 

Hi. Don't like it? Don't click.

 

Same goes for Hovik or wheels or anybody else.

 

Hoviks post was 100% pure fcuking bullshit. And if you thought it was helpful, sincere, or anything else than a condescending straw man that amounted to "everybody who disagrees with me is racist". If you support it then you own it too.

 

 

Hi. Don't like it? Don't click.

 

Same goes for Hovik or wheels or anybody else.

 

Hoviks post was 100% pure fcuking bullshit. And if you thought it was helpful, sincere, or anything else than a condescending straw man that amounted to "everybody who disagrees with me is racist". If you support it then you own it too.

 

There are elements of condescension in his post, as there are in the two you just posted. There are elements of truth in his post, as there are in yours. Unfortunately your response to Wheels displays the same logic that you mentioned - "everybody who disagrees with me is an X, Y, Z" This goes both ways.

 

Instead of addressing Wheels' post with a reason why you thought NASA is useless, it was a "fcuk off" I understand that Wheels' posts have been excessive and annoying in the past, but how is this helpful?

 

But you are correct, if I don't like what I see, I should ignore the thread. I shouldn't expect to see well formed arguments on a car forum. Shame.

 

 

 

 

 

This situation shows that people don't do their homework and function on emotion....Obama made the bans possible. Obama signed in 2011 and then signed into law on December 18, 2015, as part of the Omnibus Appropriations Act of FY2016.

Obama restricted visa waivers for those seven Muslim-majority countries Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Libya and Yemen and now, Trump is looking to bar immigration and visitors from the same list of countries....At times our government need to put the citizens as the priority: originally when immigrants came to this country they were held at Ellis Island some for months while we verified whether or not they were sick in anyway ... when Carter was in office he deported Iranians during hostage crisis and in 1924 immigration was suspended to allow those who came here to assimilate because of such large numbers coming during this time... at the end of the day this is not a ban but 120 day moratorium so that vetting protocols can be put in place

 

This situation shows that people don't do their homework and function on emotion....Obama made the bans possible. Obama signed in 2011 and then signed into law on December 18, 2015, as part of the Omnibus Appropriations Act of FY2016.

Obama restricted visa waivers for those seven Muslim-majority countries Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Libya and Yemen and now, Trump is looking to bar immigration and visitors from the same list of countries....At times our government need to put the citizens as the priority: originally when immigrants came to this country they were held at Ellis Island some for months while we verified whether or not they were sick in anyway ... when Carter was in office he deported Iranians during hostage crisis and in 1924 immigration was suspended to allow those who came here to assimilate because of such large numbers coming during this time... at the end of the day this is not a ban but 120 day moratorium so that vetting protocols can be put in place

I understand the reasoning behind the restrictions, and I don't see a problem with vetting people who come in, but why only those and not more countries? I mean why not Saudi? After all, most 9/11 attackers were Saudi nationals. These vetting protocols should be directed at all countries who pose a risk. Is there currently a different process for the countries mentioned in the moratorium than for others?

The only reason I can think of for not applying this to Saudis as well is that they have a rather functional intelligence service that cooperates with the US and provides information on their citizens. But does Afghanistan have the same? I doubt it. As far as I understand it's not only about refugees, visa holders are affected too.

.

fcuk off wheels. Everybody recognizes eminent domain.

 

This quote just made my 2017

This situation shows that people don't do their homework and function on emotion....Obama made the bans possible. Obama signed in 2011 and then signed into law on December 18, 2015, as part of the Omnibus Appropriations Act of FY2016.

Obama restricted visa waivers for those seven Muslim-majority countries Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Libya and Yemen and now, Trump is looking to bar immigration and visitors from the same list of countries....At times our government need to put the citizens as the priority: originally when immigrants came to this country they were held at Ellis Island some for months while we verified whether or not they were sick in anyway ... when Carter was in office he deported Iranians during hostage crisis and in 1924 immigration was suspended to allow those who came here to assimilate because of such large numbers coming during this time... at the end of the day this is not a ban but 120 day moratorium so that vetting protocols can be put in place

 

I have LOVED telling liberals about the Carter Iranian bans, and they are usually rendered speechless. It's classic. Facking Carter lol

With all due respect... We've had a do nothing/pussy leading this country for the last 100 years.

 

Ive been working on a thesis that, contrary to popular belief, The United States lost World War 2.

 

That is a VERY interesting claim. Color me interested in your thesis! I could definiately see it with FDR's socialist program New Deal, but I'm assuming your going to prior to the crash with the tariffs and such that caused it?

 

Are you making room for exceptions? Or talking in absolute about the leadership?

There are elements of condescension in his post, as there are in the two you just posted. There are elements of truth in his post, as there are in yours. Unfortunately your response to Wheels displays the same logic that you mentioned - "everybody who disagrees with me is an X, Y, Z" This goes both ways.

 

Instead of addressing Wheels' post with a reason why you thought NASA is useless, it was a "fcuk off" I understand that Wheels' posts have been excessive and annoying in the past, but how is this helpful?

 

But you are correct, if I don't like what I see, I should ignore the thread. I shouldn't expect to see well formed arguments on a car forum. Shame.

 

 

My response to wheels has to do with a long standing policy that everybody who has followed these types of threads here for any length of time is well aware of.

 

Wheels like to respond in incredibly verbose responses... to EVERY. SINGLE. POST. IN. A. THREAD. And sometimes needs a time out to allow him a chance for the rest of the forum to breath. There is a reason I get to tell him to fcuk off. Because IAM THE ONLY REASON HE IS STILL HERE.

 

 

As for HOVICKS post. It was 100% bullshit. And as far as I'm concerned was a complete ad homonym attack on EVERYBODY who had participated in this thread. Up til that point the responses in this thread from both sides had been more or less respectful. Calling everybody who disagrees with you HITLER doesn't fcuking fly here. Especially in response to one of my fcuking posts. I wear two hats in this thread and the "you done" post, again as anybody who has paid any attention to these types of threads knows, was me putting on my moderator hat as gently as I can. And no. I don't need any help from you. The moderation team has been very successful at setting a tone in this forum where the bullshit arguments you can hear thrown around everywhere else don't fly. Disagree. Fine. Argue your point. Specifically and articulately. Call somebody a: racist; sexist, misogynist; xenophobic, islamophobic, bigoted, homophobic

With zero supporting evidence? That's a one way ticket to POS FORUM.com.