So I know we're not supposed to talk politics - Presidential Election - Poll

If you know very little about economics, you are going to have a very misinformed worldview about things and you won't understand what politicians, Left or Right, are actually selling you.

 

 

Point missed.

Point missed.

 

See my modified post, however I understood your point perfectly well, but I disagree with it. Yes, you don't need a Ph.D in economics to see things aren't right, but you DO need a basic understanding of economics, because without it, some of those things you think "aren't right" actually ARE right, and you just don't understand why.

See my modified post, however I understood your point perfectly well, but I disagree with it. Yes, you don't need a Ph.D in economics to see things aren't right, but you DO need a basic understanding of economics, because without it, some of those things you think "aren't right" actually ARE right, and you just don't understand why.

 

 

Now you're assuming.

 

The point was that economics (which I think I have an okay grasp on) was not my focus in school nor is it, aside from this conversation here a topic I really have in depth conversations about.

 

 

Edit-- and I have already stated that this very thread has changed my view in a lot of ways. I do appreciate that guys! By the way.

 

Again, there is a medium. I hope at least one of you (like I have) maybe changes your view a little.. that's what's cool about the net.. you can share ideas, freely. And when the conversations stay civil, they can be very fulfilling.

There's nothing wrong with caring about people, and wanting society as a whole to prosper. I think Norway was the only one who had it close for a while... but it is SUCH a complex issue.

There's nothing wrong with caring about people, and wanting society as a whole to prosper. I think Norway was the only one who had it close for a while... but it is SUCH a complex issue.

 

 

Truth. 👍

And here folks is why some us of drive real Lambos, and others try and rebuild one with replica parts.

And here folks is why some us of drive real Lambos, and others try and rebuild one with replica parts.

 

See, I knew you couldn't play nice. Too proud to accept a hand shake from a commoner.. lmfao.

 

 

Is it a replica part if I make it with my own hands? With superior materials? I'll need clarification on that. I'll refer to my parts as my parts, perhaps aftermarket would be most appropriate. Replica? Na. No one piece bodies here.

 

Lol.. I wonder if I should I mention where I sourced some of these parts? Bet some of your cars have been there.

 

Does your assessment of my protect also hold true for RUF and their CTR/993 car? I mean= that is a replica. Are Singers works on the "reimagined" porsches replica parts? It really is an interesting discussion. Where is the line? Clear as mud.

 

At the end of the day, I'm pretty proud of the work I have completed using harbor freight tooling, some basic fab skills and a bit of heart. To kick sand on that... tsktsk. Show me one thing you're proud of and I will share in your proud.

 

 

Psssst.. also.. in 100 years= we will both be in the same condition. ;-)

 

 

 

 

 

Agree completely until the end of your statement. Come walk in my shoes for a mile or two.

 

Cheers.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I've had a few drinks, so I'm going to rant again.

 

I'm sorry, what you just said is the most fcuking hilarious thing I've read all day. I don't want anybody to pity me. I am where I am today because of my own decisions and I'm god damn proud of it, but if you even walked a mile in my shoes or other people I know, I guarantee you'd never bitch a fcuking day in the rest of your life. Please, by all means, come and live on a ship where all you don't even own is a 2.5 ft x 6" space where you sleep and keep your clothes inside of and everything you're permitted to have. ALSO, BTW, you work 18 sometimes 22 hour days, EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK aaaaaand make $22,000 a year after taxes. Please, do this for 4 years where you only see a $3K increase in pay each year and then come complain to me. Oh, and by the way your enemies are actively targetting you every day, poisonous gas may leak into where you're sleeping from mechanical issues and a steam pipe might rupture in your berthing, burning you and your friends alive and or you may die in a fire from electrical issues or while fighting one. Don't forget all the other ways you might die. It's okay though. I was proud of what I made and I'll never feel sorry about it.

 

I make better money than this today, but I also have been working long enough to earn more pay and have been working the last 3 years to change my situation, and guess what? I STILL DON'T MAKE AS MUCH AS YOU. You get paid what you're worth, and if you don't think you're getting paid enough, you have nobody to thank but yourself. And just so you know, I'd have gladly walked in your shoes in a heartbeat rather than my own, and I never felt sorry for myself while walking in my own.

 

I have joined LP because I want to learn frmo people who don't complain or feel sorry for themselves. If they don't like their situation(s), they change it. If they don't like how much money they're making, they've worked hard for better jobs. All I see you do on here is complain about inequality. Let me tell you dude, I've worked minimum wage jobs in highschool before I turned 18 and started the job that I'm still in now, and those people were some of the laziest mother fuckers I've ever met in my life. They had nobody to blame but themselves.

 

Thanks Trump for being smart enough

To see we we're getting ripped off and now not being the only nation required to be funneling billions of dollars to corrupt third world countries. Helping us stop being the teet for the rest of the world to be sucking on

https://qz.com/1024520/renewable-energy-is-...rump-withdraws/

Thanks Trump for being smart enough

To see we we're getting ripped off and now not being the only nation required to be funneling billions of dollars to corrupt third world countries. Helping us stop being the teet for the rest of the world to be sucking on

https://qz.com/1024520/renewable-energy-is-...rump-withdraws/

 

Germany has repeatedly almost fried their power grid, with electricity prices already around 3x or more what they are in the U.S., because of their forcing themselves to use wind and solar so much. In Australia, they just recently suffered a big power outage as the electricity company had to shut down the power to prevent a big blackout. Basically the temperatures soared super high, and thus lots of air conditioning was needed. Unfortunately, there was too much reliance on wind power and the wind wasn't blowing, and the natural gas power plant didn't have enough natural gas to burn to meet the demand.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I've had a few drinks, so I'm going to rant again.

 

I'm sorry, what you just said is the most fcuking hilarious thing I've read all day. I don't want anybody to pity me. I am where I am today because of my own decisions and I'm god damn proud of it, but if you even walked a mile in my shoes or other people I know, I guarantee you'd never bitch a fcuking day in the rest of your life. Please, by all means, come and live on a ship where all you don't even own is a 2.5 ft x 6" space where you sleep and keep your clothes inside of and everything you're permitted to have. ALSO, BTW, you work 18 sometimes 22 hour days, EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK aaaaaand make $22,000 a year after taxes. Please, do this for 4 years where you only see a $3K increase in pay each year and then come complain to me. Oh, and by the way your enemies are actively targetting you every day, poisonous gas may leak into where you're sleeping from mechanical issues and a steam pipe might rupture in your berthing, burning you and your friends alive and or you may die in a fire from electrical issues or while fighting one. Don't forget all the other ways you might die. It's okay though. I was proud of what I made and I'll never feel sorry about it.

 

I make better money than this today, but I also have been working long enough to earn more pay and have been working the last 3 years to change my situation, and guess what? I STILL DON'T MAKE AS MUCH AS YOU. You get paid what you're worth, and if you don't think you're getting paid enough, you have nobody to thank but yourself. And just so you know, I'd have gladly walked in your shoes in a heartbeat rather than my own, and I never felt sorry for myself while walking in my own.

 

I have joined LP because I want to learn frmo people who don't complain or feel sorry for themselves. If they don't like their situation(s), they change it. If they don't like how much money they're making, they've worked hard for better jobs. All I see you do on here is complain about inequality. Let me tell you dude, I've worked minimum wage jobs in highschool before I turned 18 and started the job that I'm still in now, and those people were some of the laziest mother fuckers I've ever met in my life. They had nobody to blame but themselves.

 

Bud, I'm not doing another day of this.

 

I appreciate what you're saying, and even agree to some extent. However, I'm not feeling sorry for myself in saying that, rather pointing out that I've done exactly what was said. The example, the point that was attempted is exactly what path I had followed.

 

I'll rewind to save you the search== "employers protect employees".

 

That doesn't trump my claim of minutes and seconds being a much bigger risk than dollars and cents. You have a pretty apparent risk going on as well= however, everyone here is reaping the reward that your risk is making possible. I thank you.

Anyone generating wealth for a company should be paid accordingly and if he isn't he is free to go elsewhere however you seem to feel like the wealth should be spread across all the workers, that's not how the world works. The owner may have been eating cheese sandwiches for 20 years before making it, jealous workers never seem to consider what it took the owner to get where he is.

 

 

This is so true. Completely put your family in a box while working 20 hours....yes 20 hours a day 7 days a week for two straight years. All your buddies are out having a good time and living

it up while you are stuck to the books and business with 3-4 hours a sleep every day having to pass on all those good times and make those sacrifices with the hope of a good business 5 years

later or maybe not. You want the definition of sacrificing your life and your hours? You darn sure aren't doing it working for someone else. 5 oclock you forget about work and head home. Owning

a business is 24/7 and its never off your mind. You're so called "good workers" will make sure of that.

This is so true. Completely put your family in a box while working 20 hours....yes 20 hours a day 7 days a week for two straight years. All your buddies are out having a good time and living

it up while you are stuck to the books and business with 3-4 hours a sleep every day having to pass on all those good times and make those sacrifices with the hope of a good business 5 years

later or maybe not. You want the definition of sacrificing your life and your hours? You darn sure aren't doing it working for someone else. 5 oclock you forget about work and head home. Owning

a business is 24/7 and its never off your mind. You're so called "good workers" will make sure of that.

 

 

Cheers to that. And I completely agree on all accounts- especially the "good workers" as- man, I sure do know some "good workers" and the funny thing is that some here are saying that I am whining about inequality. You should hear the ones I have in mind whine about how little they're paid. It's like they don't realize that my 11 year old daughter is capable of doing their job.

 

However- what you are describing is why you have had multiple Lamborghini. And thanks to many of you here, you actually leading that, I am looking at a different path.

 

That said- this is not what I am whining for- actually, in any way, shape or form. I am not claiming that your workers, or that I should be able to afford a new Aventador based on what I do. You all seem to think that I am pushing for that. No, no no. I am talking about being able to live comfortably with minimal debt. I don't think that is unreasonable. At least then those who really do put effort in could actually save for their retirement AND enjoy life. Right now= it's one or the other for pretty much everyone. It really shouldn't be this way for many.

 

 

 

 

See, I knew you couldn't play nice. Too proud to accept a hand shake from a commoner.. lmfao.

 

 

Is it a replica part if I make it with my own hands? With superior materials? I'll need clarification on that. I'll refer to my parts as my parts, perhaps aftermarket would be most appropriate. Replica? Na. No one piece bodies here.

 

Lol.. I wonder if I should I mention where I sourced some of these parts? Bet some of your cars have been there.

 

Does your assessment of my protect also hold true for RUF and their CTR/993 car? I mean= that is a replica. Are Singers works on the "reimagined" porsches replica parts? It really is an interesting discussion. Where is the line? Clear as mud.

 

At the end of the day, I'm pretty proud of the work I have completed using harbor freight tooling, some basic fab skills and a bit of heart. To kick sand on that... tsktsk. Show me one thing you're proud of and I will share in your proud.

 

 

Psssst.. also.. in 100 years= we will both be in the same condition. ;-)

Yup. Those definitions are replica.

Bud, I'm not doing another day of this.

 

I appreciate what you're saying, and even agree to some extent. However, I'm not feeling sorry for myself in saying that, rather pointing out that I've done exactly what was said. The example, the point that was attempted is exactly what path I had followed.

 

I'll rewind to save you the search== "employers protect employees".

 

That doesn't trump my claim of minutes and seconds being a much bigger risk than dollars and cents. You have a pretty apparent risk going on as well= however, everyone here is reaping the reward that your risk is making possible. I thank you.

 

 

Don't thank me man. My point is that you're paid what you're worth in this country. You are replaceable. It's hilarious that burger flippers are demanding they be paid $15 an hour.

 

You can also still pay people minimum wage and take care of them. When I was making minimum wage at McDonalds, they were offering college scholarships, internship programs to work at corporate in the area, programs to help you move up to a higher paying job at a store and even manager courses. It's not hard to flip a burger but some of those days are not easy either.

 

So again, like I said many pages ago, if you don't like where you are, change your situation. That's the incredible thing about America-you're not obligated to make a certain amount like in socialist countries. If you're sour because of your situation, that's not your employer's fault, it's yours. They don't owe you anything but what you were promised in the contract you signed.

Don't thank me man. My point is that you're paid what you're worth in this country. You are replaceable. It's hilarious that burger flippers are demanding they be paid $15 an hour.

 

You can also still pay people minimum wage and take care of them. When I was making minimum wage at McDonalds, they were offering college scholarships, internship programs to work at corporate in the area, programs to help you move up to a higher paying job at a store and even manager courses. It's not hard to flip a burger but some of those days are not easy either.

 

So again, like I said many pages ago, if you don't like where you are, change your situation. That's the incredible thing about America-you're not obligated to make a certain amount like in socialist countries. If you're sour because of your situation, that's not your employer's fault, it's yours. They don't owe you anything but what you were promised in the contract you signed.

 

 

None of this is untrue. However- it's not what I'm poking at. It has nothing to do with fair. It has everything to do with wages not keeping up with inflation. That is not a "fair" thing, it is a "not right" thing. They're not the same.

 

So now we have a $15 minimum wage. That will only add to this issue, IMHO. But it, just like "tax the rich" are government hands in the process because no one is "doing the right thing" by their people, giving them a wage that reflects what the world is.

 

If you don't want the taxes= then don't give people a reason to be pissed off.

 

 

I've always been of the mindset that the wealthy should have the opportunity to earn a better tax rate by taking their tax burden and paying it directly to their people, rather than the government. By doing that- you would have employees who directly affect your wallet being quite happy with your generosity... you could probably anticipate a harder working team the next year... assuming they're not "good workers" as Thurdgen pointed out.

 

 

I know damn well if the owner of my company came in and said "you know what, here is $20k- I had to either pay it in taxes or disperse among my top contributors"... I sure would be sure I was a top contributor again next year.

.

I know nothing about Venezuela. Tell me, do they have great schools? Do their people have the freedoms we have? What are their taxes like?

 

----

 

Edited to say: I'm sorry, did you just compare a blip on the map to the superpower of the world? I'm literally scratching my head. How can you compare the two? What is their primary export? Coffee?? Get that out of here...

 

Your naivety hurts you terribly.

 

In your opinion being just a blip on the map means a Country is insignificant? How so?

Do you consider Japan insignificant? They are just a blip on the map, yet they have the third largest economy in the world.

 

Venezuela is 2.5 times as large as Japan, I guess their blip is a bit larger than Japan.

Venezuela is the sixth largest member of OPEC by oil production.

Venezuela has more proven crude oil reserves than Saudi Arabia which is 2.35 times as large as Venezuela, I guess they are a bigger blip.

From the 1950s to the early 1980s the Venezuelan enjoyed the highest standard of living in Latin America.

Since Hugo Chávez's "socialist revolution" and the decline in the price of crude oil which he thought would never happen even although it happened in the 1980's. The country went down the toilet.

 

kmb58 you admitted yourself that you

I don't have the answer. Hell, I know very little about economics- I create things.

So now you believe you are the one that should give your employer advice on how he should compensate his employees?

After all what has he done? Other than create a success company that you work for. I am sorry your mindset makes no sense. Did you apply for a job before or after your boss created this successful company that he hoards the cash from? No you applied for a job at his company after many years of his hard work to make it successful. If it wasn't for his hard work and the understanding of economics, the company would 1) not exist or 2) not be successful. Either way you would not have been applying for a job with his company.

 

Sincerely Vic

 

 

I am talking about being able to live comfortably with minimal debt. I don't think that is unreasonable. At least then those who really do put effort in could actually save for their retirement AND enjoy life. Right now= it's one or the other for pretty much everyone. It really shouldn't be this way for many.

 

No it's not. Maybe consider your idea of 'living comfortably' is out of line with your income?

 

Let me pose a hypothetical here: Say I use the my line of credit to buy a house for investment purposes. I decide it needs new floors and a coat of paint. I hire the painter for $4k and the flooring guy for $6,500. Spend some $$ on advertising and staging, so that inside of 90 days I turn around and sell it. If it sells for $100k more than I paid for it, are the contractors and vendors I employed at an agreed upon price somehow entitled to, or deserving of more?

 

 

 

With zero risk there is a very minimal reward. This is true in literally all facets of life.

 

You're also ignoring the fact that in the united states, due entirely to capitalism consumer goods have literally never been cheaper.

Your naivety hurts you terribly.

 

In your opinion being just a blip on the map means a Country is insignificant? How so?

Do you consider Japan insignificant? They are just a blip on the map, yet they have the third largest economy in the world.

 

Venezuela is 2.5 times as large as Japan, I guess their blip is a bit larger than Japan.

Venezuela is the sixth largest member of OPEC by oil production.

Venezuela has more proven crude oil reserves than Saudi Arabia which is 2.35 times as large as Venezuela, I guess they are a bigger blip.

From the 1950s to the early 1980s the Venezuelan enjoyed the highest standard of living in Latin America.

Since Hugo Chávez's "socialist revolution" and the decline in the price of crude oil which he thought would never happen even although it happened in the 1980's. The country went down the toilet.

 

kmb58 you admitted yourself that you

So now you believe you are the one that should give your employer advice on how he should compensate his employees?

After all what has he done? Other than create a success company that you work for. I am sorry your mindset makes no sense. Did you apply for a job before or after your boss created this successful company that he hoards the cash from? No you applied for a job at his company after many years of his hard work to make it successful. If it wasn't for his hard work and the understanding of economics, the company would 1) not exist or 2) not be successful. Either way you would not have been applying for a job with his company.

 

Sincerely Vic

 

 

Good points Vic. Appreciated.. what I said about Venezuela was not meant to be naive or dismissive about their history and socialism.. it was merely to state that I don't think our economy should be directly compared to theirs.

 

Second point: absolutely. I would never go in and demand all workers get a pay bump "just cuz".. I'm merely shareing with all of you a point of view that maybe people here agree with, at least in part, but perhaps aren't as ... bold .. as I am.

 

Edit** also, this is not necessarily my feelings about my current employer. While partially, sure, but I have a fairly decent thing going. I actually like the company I work for quite a bit. Previous experiences are more the focus here. Previous experiences that my wife actually is still being subjected to.. talk about a rats nest of waste..

 

You guys should be thrilled I'm comfortable enough to speak up! (Kidding)

 

Just as Szabo said... there is nothing wrong with wanting everyone to do a little better. I'll keep saying that at least in my case, you make me happy, I make you happy. The happier I am, the more happy I want to make you..

You're also ignoring the fact that in the united states, due entirely to capitalism consumer goods have literally never been cheaper.

 

THIS^

 

Don't forget the standard of living has never been higher! But somehow all these leftists want us to believe life is terrible here.

Doc..... first let me say thank you for your service to your country.

 

Second .....let me say.....you get it.

 

You are prepared to do ....

 

the ugly stuff,

the stuff others don't want to do,

the stuff that comes with little recognition,

the stuff that comes with even poorer compensation.

 

 

Yet you do it !!!!!!

It is because you do it with longer term goals in mind, that I predict future success for you.

THIS^

 

Don't forget the standard of living has never been higher! But somehow all these leftists want us to believe life is terrible here.

 

 

I think this is skewed. Sure, we have more stuff. Stuff does not mean = better. You could find support for the exact opposite of what you're saying. At the end of the day, my 2017 salary would have been half what one could achieve in 1995 with a high school diploma. That high school diploma also did not cost good ole' ma' $400/mo.

 

Guys.. you can argue any way you like. I'll agree with many of your points. None of them are going to justify the lack of wage growth compared to inflation, and that is all I have ever argued.

See, I knew you couldn't play nice. Too proud to accept a hand shake from a commoner.. lmfao.

 

 

Is it a replica part if I make it with my own hands? With superior materials? I'll need clarification on that. I'll refer to my parts as my parts, perhaps aftermarket would be most appropriate. Replica? Na. No one piece bodies here.

 

Lol.. I wonder if I should I mention where I sourced some of these parts? Bet some of your cars have been there.

 

Does your assessment of my protect also hold true for RUF and their CTR/993 car? I mean= that is a replica. Are Singers works on the "reimagined" porsches replica parts? It really is an interesting discussion. Where is the line? Clear as mud.

 

At the end of the day, I'm pretty proud of the work I have completed using harbor freight tooling, some basic fab skills and a bit of heart. To kick sand on that... tsktsk. Show me one thing you're proud of and I will share in your proud.

 

 

Psssst.. also.. in 100 years= we will both be in the same condition. ;-)

 

 

 

OMG.... I laughed so hard it hurts. At first I only thought you a fool, now you are a delusional fool. Comparing that hunk of shit you are building to a Ruf or a Singer? LOLOL

 

In 100 years we will both be dead, it will be about how we spent our lives until that final day. Ill spend each day living and enjoying life to the fullest, you'll spend each day whining with your tales of woe.

 

And again.... a RUF OR A SINGER :lol2: :lol2:

 

Another thought for you guys..

 

 

So with people making the choice = live life or save, and I promise, that is a real thing for probably 90% of the middle class...

 

And all of this great "stuff"... cellphones, high speed internet so I can argue with you.. and look at pics of cars.. with all of that= and no one having a pension anymore, what's going to happen on 20, 30, 40 years? Where will the money be to support all of these folks?

 

Man.. it's gonna be messy.

 

 

A stitch in time always saves nine.