50 dead is mass shooting at florida gay club

Wheels having access to guns, are we sure about this?

 

 

Ive heard on the news that the guy was a frequent to the night club himself and was himself gay (still in the closet). Again, no singular label can be placed on this without complete oversimplification of the underlying issues.

you guys talking about banning guns do realize that owning an illegal weapon is already a fairly punishable crime with jail time and could be fairly long sentence depending on the weapon. The problem is not the guns. Its also not that easy to get a weapon. Background checks, Holding period, and limited purchases. You also can't get automatic weapons like the media makes it sound like you can. The guy killed people (illegal) the guy had a bomb (illegal) the problem is the ideology and the fact that everyone is to PC and scared to do something about people like this and not get called a racist.

Orlando shooter was a regular at the gay nightclub he attacked, used multiple gay dating apps

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/report-orlan...-222620444.html

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/report-orlan...-222620444.html

 

So... this is the gay Elliot Rodgers?

The accounts I read say there were no explosives.

Don't the studies show 9 out of 10 people with a gun can't pull it when defending themselves? That's a pretty big hole to the whole argument if true.

Im wondering how many people were actually involved with this.

 

There are eyewitness interviews stating that two people were firing at the same time and also that someone was holding the rear exit shut. Other reports say that there was four people.

Im wondering how many people were actually involved with this.

 

There are eyewitness interviews stating that two people were firing at the same time and also that someone was holding the rear exit shut. Other reports say that there was four people.

 

Witness reports are often not 100% reliable. In traumatic situations in general people have shown to give differing reports of the same incident, and that has even been shown in controlled experiments. For example, a staged robbery. You and I could watch that robbery either from a distance or be placed among the act, and could come out with different things we picked up from it. Presence of a getaway car or fled on foot, number of people involved, color of clothing, weapons involved, etc. It is quite interesting how different people process situations and come away from them.

 

Anyway, my point is that given such a traumatic incident and the high likelihood of sensory overload from such a real extreme experience, even survivors of this attack may have widely differing accounts. I'm not discounting everything reported or said by them, by no means. I do hope they can help shed light on new information. They've been through something horrible and could be telling truthful points of what happened and perhaps there were more people involved. We'll have to let the investigation continue and if there were others involved, hopefully they will be apprehended swiftly.

When my wife and I lived on the beach in Florida before moving to Naples a few years ago we had a man break into our garage through the side door about 2am one night. My wife woke up and I had her hide in our master closet with a pistol and my ar15 while I stood at the interior door to our garage with a 12 gauge. I had no clue who this man/men were, what they wanted, if they were armed or what their plans were. I had already made up my mind that the moment they tried to breach the door to my home my garage was getting a coat of red paint. Fortunately he never tried to move into the house and the police were able to take him into custody without any incident.

 

The police response time was approximately 8 minutes. That's a very small part of a lifetime, but a lifetime in itself when your counting the seconds. ill keep my guns, my rights, and my ability to protect myself and my family.

Im wondering how many people were actually involved with this.

 

There are eyewitness interviews stating that two people were firing at the same time and also that someone was holding the rear exit shut. Other reports say that there was four people.

 

Could be the initial exchange with the security guard, and I think some of the people who ran out of the club into a small alleyway, said the held the door closed behind them because they thought the shooter was following them out into the alley and they were trying to keep him from exiting...I think after the incident it finally hit them that instead of keeping the killer out of the alley, they may have inadvertently prevented other victims from getting out.

you guys talking about banning guns do realize that owning an illegal weapon is already a fairly punishable crime with jail time and could be fairly long sentence depending on the weapon. The problem is not the guns. Its also not that easy to get a weapon. Background checks, Holding period, and limited purchases. You also can't get automatic weapons like the media makes it sound like you can. The guy killed people (illegal) the guy had a bomb (illegal) the problem is the ideology and the fact that everyone is to PC and scared to do something about people like this and not get called a racist.

 

maybe in california. In PA it's incredibly easy and fast to get a gun, you can also own machine guns, short barrel rifles, suppressors... Exactly how it should be.

Damn, Amarillo Tx hostage sit currently.

Damn, Amarillo Tx hostage sit currently.

 

Everything I'm reading says no casualties and the suspect was killed.

The more guns are controlled, the more criminals will take advantage and use them i.e.; chicago. IMO, when there are more guns, criminals would be less likely to use them for fear of the other person having one as well. We have become so politically correct, it has overtaken our strengths and made us weak and extremely vulnerable. As much as the truth hurts, racial profiling is what it is for a reason. America should not change its values due to who lives here. Those who live here need to change their values to our way of life. If you don't like it then go back where you came from. It disgusts me that children don't say the Pledge of Allegiance due to religious beliefs. fcuk you, you are in our country and this is what we do. You don't like that there is freedom of speech, freedom of expression, sexual orientation and whatever else? fcuk you get the fcuk out of here and go back to the shit country where you have no freedoms and no voice. I am in full support of closing our boarders until a system can be put in place where those looking for a citizenship must be fully vetted to know who they are and why they want to come here. Tough shit if you don't like it, we were here first and we get to make the rules to protect our citizens.

 

Your point of view makes the logic sense, however you express it a bit emotionally. Anyway i agree with you in general.

The more guns are controlled, the more criminals will take advantage and use them i.e.; chicago. IMO, when there are more guns, criminals would be less likely to use them for fear of the other person having one as well. We have become so politically correct, it has overtaken our strengths and made us weak and extremely vulnerable. As much as the truth hurts, racial profiling is what it is for a reason. America should not change its values due to who lives here. Those who live here need to change their values to our way of life. If you don't like it then go back where you came from. It disgusts me that children don't say the Pledge of Allegiance due to religious beliefs. fcuk you, you are in our country and this is what we do. You don't like that there is freedom of speech, freedom of expression, sexual orientation and whatever else? fcuk you get the fcuk out of here and go back to the shit country where you have no freedoms and no voice. I am in full support of closing our boarders until a system can be put in place where those looking for a citizenship must be fully vetted to know who they are and why they want to come here. Tough shit if you don't like it, we were here first and we get to make the rules to protect our citizens.

Gun guys what do you say?

Don't the studies show 9 out of 10 people with a gun can't pull it when defending themselves? That's a pretty big hole to the whole argument if true.

 

Says who?

 

What "studies"? Are these said "studies" talking about those who legally carry and are trained? Or those who open carry? Illegally carry?

 

Are these "scenarios" one on one? Mass shooters? break ins? Domestics? Attempted thefts?

 

Nine out of 10? Again, without a credible study or even circumstances you might as well not even cite a figure unless you are trying to skew it in your favor.

 

It sounds like a liberal talking point more than anything to be honest.Without citing any credible studies, without defined parameters, it's a storm of conjecture that does nothing more than promote confusion on the issue in an attempt to put pro-gun position holders in a corner.

Two ironies I've been thinking here; this guy was not on the No Fly List it turns out. So even if people on the No Fly List were banned from purchasing arms, he still would have been able to. So...

 

The argument is we should ban people on the No Fly List from having arms even though the terrorist wasn't on the No Fly List

 

The argument that we should temporarily ban Muslims from entering the U.S. makes no sense because the guy was born in the country anyway (BTW I do not endorse such a ban, just making a point here).

 

Also banning Muslims temporarily I do not believe would infringe on anyone's rights, but banning those on the No Fly List from acquiring guns would, yet many are for the latter and not the former.

Question for the pro-gun side of the debate: What would make you change your mind about guns (anything beyond a handgun)? Ie what would you need to see happen in order for you to say "you know what, they're right we need to get rid of the assault rifles"?

Question for the pro-gun side of the debate: What would make you change your mind about guns (anything beyond a handgun)? Ie what would you need to see happen in order for you to say "you know what, they're right we need to get rid of the assault rifles"?

 

Nothing, that's the whole point. When a guy walks in and shoots 100 people with an AR, I don't look at the AR and think, damn gun, I look at the psychopath and try and think about what it was that caused him to do that. Fact is, guns are the easy battle to go after. They don't get offended, they aren't a religious minority or majority. They are an inanimate tool that someone decided to use. People fear them because they have no experience with them. In typical fashion people always fear what they don't know. Ban the gun, and they will find another way. Bombs, box cutters, planes, cars. they will always find a way to carry this out. The problem isn't guns, its terrorism.

We're nothearing anything more about the other shooters.

What other shooters? Wouldn't simple ballistics tests tell them all of the bullets were discharged from his two weapons and that's it? One guy perpetrated this death and suffering.

Nothing, that's the whole point. When a guy walks in and shoots 100 people with an AR, I don't look at the AR and think, damn gun, I look at the psychopath and try and think about what it was that caused him to do that. Fact is, guns are the easy battle to go after. They don't get offended, they aren't a religious minority or majority. They are an inanimate tool that someone decided to use. People fear them because they have no experience with them. In typical fashion people always fear what they don't know. Ban the gun, and they will find another way. Bombs, box cutters, planes, cars. they will always find a way to carry this out. The problem isn't guns, its terrorism.

Nothing, that's the whole point. When a guy walks in and shoots 100 people with an AR, I don't look at the AR and think, damn gun, I look at the psychopath and try and think about what it was that caused him to do that. Fact is, guns are the easy battle to go after. They don't get offended, they aren't a religious minority or majority. They are an inanimate tool that someone decided to use. People fear them because they have no experience with them. In typical fashion people always fear what they don't know. Ban the gun, and they will find another way. Bombs, box cutters, planes, cars. they will always find a way to carry this out. The problem isn't guns, its terrorism.

 

Then the libs will say (and have said):

 

"But if we stopped AR-15s from being so readily available, instead of 100 injured/50 dead, it would be a quarter of that!"....

 

Without acknowledging the fact that these guns are sold to private citizens as semi-auto, not auto. In semi-auto form I highly doubt the AR could have done as much damage.

 

The gun control crowd would make a big stink about a single .22 pistol killing one person, and suddenly make that gun "ok" in comparison to an AR15. Classic human behavior when "arguing".

 

In theory, you could go ahead and go martial law on US citizens and force them to hand over all of these guns...

 

My best guess is that these mass shooter incidents goes down but STILL happens at an intolerable frequency (i.e. more than 0 incidents). You stop some, but not all. Now what?

 

And then the entire 2nd amendment is compromised. The theoretical government tyranny could happen. The "end of days" scenario where it's every man for himself will leave a lot of people exposed.

 

If it got to a really bad point in America, the big cities would be the worst place to be when s*** got real.

 

BTW, I remember years ago Mako was arguing that if the government wanted to overpower its citizenry, the citizens were helpless....even with firearms.

 

After this Orlando incident, not so sure he is right.